7 ms·

Okay, and to sign commits or emails? To encrypt files?

by faho 7y ago

tptacek 7y ago
Don't encrypt and sign emails.
- danShumway 7y ago
  This is not a realistic solution. SMS-sized messages are the least hard part of this for me. What I want is to be able to point at a file or folder on my computer and say, "sign that with a public key so I can prove I wrote it" or "encrypt that with someone else's public key so only they can read it". At that point, I don't necessary care all that much about how the file gets sent over the network. It doesn't need to be integrated into email, but it does need to be a low-level enough operation that I can use it on an arbitrary block of text, file, or folder of any size. Is there a replacement that does that? I use Signal, and it's great. But Signal is not a replacement for PGP, it's a replacement for one, very specific use-case for PGP.
  - jrockway 7y ago
    I haven't used it for this, but I think Keybase might be a good system for filling the role of keyservers. If you just want encrypted messaging, it has it. But you can also store your PGP key in there and people can trust it if they trust Keybase's other proofs (which are not necessarily a leap of faith, you can go to the source and verify them).
  - tptacek 7y ago
    You asked (among other things) how to send messages securely without PGP. Don't use PGP to send secure messages; use a secure messenger, like Signal or Wire. Someone else asked how to email securely without PGP. Email isn't secure with PGP. Don't use PGP to send encrypt emails, and don't use email to send secure messages; use a secure messenger, like Signal or Wire. I acknowledge there are use cases not well covered by secure messengers. The current state of file encryption, which is practically the "hello world" of encryption problems, is a travesty. If you're simply looking to sign something, and later verify that it was you who signed it, use minisign. But that's a very narrow use case.
    - rocqua 7y ago
      > The current state of file encryption, which is practically the "hello world" of encryption problems, is a travesty. Do you know of any projects that are aiming to solve this? It feels like all that is needed is a halfway decent standard file format, and some tools to bootstrap it. That seems to be how we got TLS and SSH, which are the two successes of encryption. I suppose those two protocols have the advantage of interactive negotiation. Whereas software encrypting a file does not get to negotiate any parameters with the software that will later be decrypting it. Moreover, those protocols had some decent weight behind it. Secure data transport is a problem that matters to essentially everyone these days. Whereas secure and portable file encryption really does not. E-mail is a significant use-case, but only tangentially, and optimal E-mail solutions are not really optimal portable file solutions.
      - iancarroll 7y ago
        My money is on `age` right now. https://twitter.com/FiloSottile/status/1128865803938480128 https://twitter.com/FiloSottile/status/1128865803938480128
    - lifeisstillgood 7y ago
      I am not disagreeing with any particular technical point here, but I am struck reading the thread that there are two sides of a debate - one that is "Gosh GPG has had a fundamental problem for a decade and its terrible we as the internet have not solved it and now the bill comes due" and the other side is "Where the hell did that come from" I am on the WTF side - GPG is synonymous in my mind with Public / Private keypairs and now this needs re-evaluating. Tl;dr I need more context before I can understand the blast radius before I can evaluate the solutions Some of us have a lot of running to do to catch up
    - mycall 7y ago
      [matrix] and Riot.im are alternatives to Signal and Wire.
      - KirinDave 7y ago
rkeene2 7y ago
To sign or encrypt emails you could use S/MIME. It is much more widely supported than PGP for signing and encrypting emails as well.
- tptacek 7y ago
  S/MIME is even worse than PGP. Don't use it.

Okay, and to sign commits or emails? To encrypt files?

by faho 7y ago

Okay, and to sign commits or emails? To encrypt files?

tptacek 7y ago

Don't encrypt and sign emails.

danShumway 7y ago
This is not a realistic solution. SMS-sized messages are the least hard part of this for me. What I want is to be able to point at a file or folder on my computer and say, "sign that with a public key so I can prove I wrote it" or "encrypt that with someone else's public key so only they can read it". At that point, I don't necessary care all that much about how the file gets sent over the network. It doesn't need to be integrated into email, but it does need to be a low-level enough operation that I can use it on an arbitrary block of text, file, or folder of any size. Is there a replacement that does that? I use Signal, and it's great. But Signal is not a replacement for PGP, it's a replacement for one, very specific use-case for PGP.
- jrockway 7y ago
  I haven't used it for this, but I think Keybase might be a good system for filling the role of keyservers. If you just want encrypted messaging, it has it. But you can also store your PGP key in there and people can trust it if they trust Keybase's other proofs (which are not necessarily a leap of faith, you can go to the source and verify them).
- tptacek 7y ago
  You asked (among other things) how to send messages securely without PGP. Don't use PGP to send secure messages; use a secure messenger, like Signal or Wire. Someone else asked how to email securely without PGP. Email isn't secure with PGP. Don't use PGP to send encrypt emails, and don't use email to send secure messages; use a secure messenger, like Signal or Wire. I acknowledge there are use cases not well covered by secure messengers. The current state of file encryption, which is practically the "hello world" of encryption problems, is a travesty. If you're simply looking to sign something, and later verify that it was you who signed it, use minisign. But that's a very narrow use case.
  - rocqua 7y ago
    > The current state of file encryption, which is practically the "hello world" of encryption problems, is a travesty. Do you know of any projects that are aiming to solve this? It feels like all that is needed is a halfway decent standard file format, and some tools to bootstrap it. That seems to be how we got TLS and SSH, which are the two successes of encryption. I suppose those two protocols have the advantage of interactive negotiation. Whereas software encrypting a file does not get to negotiate any parameters with the software that will later be decrypting it. Moreover, those protocols had some decent weight behind it. Secure data transport is a problem that matters to essentially everyone these days. Whereas secure and portable file encryption really does not. E-mail is a significant use-case, but only tangentially, and optimal E-mail solutions are not really optimal portable file solutions.
    - iancarroll 7y ago
      My money is on `age` right now. https://twitter.com/FiloSottile/status/1128865803938480128 https://twitter.com/FiloSottile/status/1128865803938480128
  - lifeisstillgood 7y ago
    I am not disagreeing with any particular technical point here, but I am struck reading the thread that there are two sides of a debate - one that is "Gosh GPG has had a fundamental problem for a decade and its terrible we as the internet have not solved it and now the bill comes due" and the other side is "Where the hell did that come from" I am on the WTF side - GPG is synonymous in my mind with Public / Private keypairs and now this needs re-evaluating. Tl;dr I need more context before I can understand the blast radius before I can evaluate the solutions Some of us have a lot of running to do to catch up
  - mycall 7y ago
    [matrix] and Riot.im are alternatives to Signal and Wire.
    - KirinDave 7y ago

rkeene2 7y ago

To sign or encrypt emails you could use S/MIME. It is much more widely supported than PGP for signing and encrypting emails as well.

tptacek 7y ago
S/MIME is even worse than PGP. Don't use it.