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> If politicians get to call the shots in any way, it's going to run way over budget. Pretty much every single time. This is nonsense. It's just that infrastru

> If politicians get to call the shots in any way, it's going to run way over budget. Pretty much every single time. This is nonsense. It's just that infrastructure projects that get delivered on schedule and on budget (or somewhat close to that) don't make for equally pretty HN headlines. There's a lot of public infrastructure around. The vast majority of it was commissioned by politicians. The vast majority of it is just there, mentioned a few times in the local rag before commission and upon opening and that's it. Sure, I wouldn't be surprised if public spending is more often out of budget or behind schedule than private spending like you suggest. But even then, Berlin Brandenburg is an exceptional case and suggesting that excesses like it are inevitable when politicians were involved is just nuts. There's plenty of competent politicians.

merdreubu 7y ago
>There's a lot of public infrastructure around. The vast majority of it was commissioned by politicians. The vast majority of it is just there, mentioned a few times in the local rag before commission and upon opening and that's it. Of course, because the most of the press doesn't do it's job. Here is a more banal example about public bathrooms in New York: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfAE5emMCs8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfAE5emMCs8 >Berlin Brandenburg is an exceptional case No, I wager is the rule.
- nosianu 7y ago
  > No, I wager is the rule. Which you "proved" by carefully selecting a single anecdote?
  - merdreubu 7y ago
    >Which you "proved" by carefully selecting a single anecdote? I CAREFULLY SELECTED a single anecdote... did you miss the part where is detailed why toilets (as in more than one) and other government projects cost so much ant take such a long time to complete? What can I say, keep believing, comrade.
    - icebraining 7y ago
      Yeah, rules like "wheelchair accessibility" (1:21). Clearly the disabled citizens should just crap at home, so we can save a few bucks. And sustainability? Who needs that?! Frankly, ReasonTV seems like a left-wing caricature of the libertarians. There's very likely a good case to be made of wastefulness, but that video didn't have it.
      - merdreubu 7y ago
        >Clearly the disabled citizens should just crap at home Disabled citizens are clearly better served by waiting for the oversized "Super Commission of Wheelchair Access" that takes three months to put a stamp on a project that has wheelchair access. You clearly didn't even understand the argument. >And sustainability? Who needs that?! Buzzword, three months, stamp. >Frankly, ReasonTV seems like a left-wing caricature of the libertarians. There's very likely a good case to be made of wastefulness, but that video didn't have it. I'm not at all surprised you think that.
        icebraining 7y ago
        > Disabled citizens are clearly better served by waiting for the oversized "Super Commission of Wheelchair Access" that takes three months to put a stamp on a project that has wheelchair access. There is no such commission, no such stamp. What there are, as the video says, is rules (and by the way, the guide shown is for visitors, nothing to do with construction). And yes, maybe disabled citizens are better off with those, because from what I can tell, the so-efficiently-renovated Bryant Park restroom has no wheelchair accessible stalls. Again: is there waste? Absolutely, and it would have been nice to see some proper journalism covering it.
    - phatfish 7y ago
      So we are all communists for pointing out that the press only report on public projects gone wrong and not the 1000s of projects that are on budget and on time? Please... Maybe it's because publicly funded and managed projects have much greater scrutiny, and in many cases are required to respond to information requests. A private company is a black box and can use whatever means they please keep badly managed projects from becoming a story the press would be interested in. Even the auditing firms are in on the game in the UK, so you really have no chance of knowing the truth until the bankruptcy is announced and the banks are lining up to get whatever assets are left.
rndgermandude 7y ago
In my experience, the level of pride politicians show when initially announcing a project is a good indicator of how badly a project will go. The more politicians are "excited" about it, the more they will try to micromanage it later (to death) and the more they will be OK with any shit from the contractors actually building it and the more OK they are with it going over budget. It's easier to pull one over on a politician who makes the final decisions, than a professional project manager with tons of experience. If it involves different political parties or governments (like BER, which had politicians from Berlin and from Brandenburg involved, both local and state, and the federal government too to some degree) then it gets even worse, a lot worse. So projects merely commissioned by politicians usually do better (go over budget because of the moronic public bidding process, but that's a different issue), while projects not just commissioned but overseen by politicians do far less well.
vonseel 7y ago
When’s the last time you saw a highway construction project get completed in a reasonable amount of time?
- skrebbel 7y ago
  Actually, that would be the last time I saw a highway construction project get completed: a major revamp of the A2 highway as it circles my home town Eindhoven. https://nl.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randweg_Eindhoven https://nl.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randweg_Eindhoven (Google translated: https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&nv=1&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=https://nl.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randweg_Eindhoven&xid=17259,15700002,15700023,15700186,15700190,15700256,15700259&usg=ALkJrhjdKpMDZzxw53KHKzlqjG6Kd681Xg https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&...)

merdreubu 7y ago

>There's a lot of public infrastructure around. The vast majority of it was commissioned by politicians. The vast majority of it is just there, mentioned a few times in the local rag before commission and upon opening and that's it. Of course, because the most of the press doesn't do it's job. Here is a more banal example about public bathrooms in New York: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfAE5emMCs8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfAE5emMCs8 >Berlin Brandenburg is an exceptional case No, I wager is the rule.

nosianu 7y ago
> No, I wager is the rule. Which you "proved" by carefully selecting a single anecdote?
- merdreubu 7y ago
  >Which you "proved" by carefully selecting a single anecdote? I CAREFULLY SELECTED a single anecdote... did you miss the part where is detailed why toilets (as in more than one) and other government projects cost so much ant take such a long time to complete? What can I say, keep believing, comrade.
  - icebraining 7y ago
    Yeah, rules like "wheelchair accessibility" (1:21). Clearly the disabled citizens should just crap at home, so we can save a few bucks. And sustainability? Who needs that?! Frankly, ReasonTV seems like a left-wing caricature of the libertarians. There's very likely a good case to be made of wastefulness, but that video didn't have it.
    - merdreubu 7y ago
      >Clearly the disabled citizens should just crap at home Disabled citizens are clearly better served by waiting for the oversized "Super Commission of Wheelchair Access" that takes three months to put a stamp on a project that has wheelchair access. You clearly didn't even understand the argument. >And sustainability? Who needs that?! Buzzword, three months, stamp. >Frankly, ReasonTV seems like a left-wing caricature of the libertarians. There's very likely a good case to be made of wastefulness, but that video didn't have it. I'm not at all surprised you think that.
      - icebraining 7y ago
        > Disabled citizens are clearly better served by waiting for the oversized "Super Commission of Wheelchair Access" that takes three months to put a stamp on a project that has wheelchair access. There is no such commission, no such stamp. What there are, as the video says, is rules (and by the way, the guide shown is for visitors, nothing to do with construction). And yes, maybe disabled citizens are better off with those, because from what I can tell, the so-efficiently-renovated Bryant Park restroom has no wheelchair accessible stalls. Again: is there waste? Absolutely, and it would have been nice to see some proper journalism covering it.
  - phatfish 7y ago
    So we are all communists for pointing out that the press only report on public projects gone wrong and not the 1000s of projects that are on budget and on time? Please... Maybe it's because publicly funded and managed projects have much greater scrutiny, and in many cases are required to respond to information requests. A private company is a black box and can use whatever means they please keep badly managed projects from becoming a story the press would be interested in. Even the auditing firms are in on the game in the UK, so you really have no chance of knowing the truth until the bankruptcy is announced and the banks are lining up to get whatever assets are left.

rndgermandude 7y ago

In my experience, the level of pride politicians show when initially announcing a project is a good indicator of how badly a project will go. The more politicians are "excited" about it, the more they will try to micromanage it later (to death) and the more they will be OK with any shit from the contractors actually building it and the more OK they are with it going over budget. It's easier to pull one over on a politician who makes the final decisions, than a professional project manager with tons of experience. If it involves different political parties or governments (like BER, which had politicians from Berlin and from Brandenburg involved, both local and state, and the federal government too to some degree) then it gets even worse, a lot worse. So projects merely commissioned by politicians usually do better (go over budget because of the moronic public bidding process, but that's a different issue), while projects not just commissioned but overseen by politicians do far less well.

vonseel 7y ago

When’s the last time you saw a highway construction project get completed in a reasonable amount of time?

skrebbel 7y ago
Actually, that would be the last time I saw a highway construction project get completed: a major revamp of the A2 highway as it circles my home town Eindhoven. https://nl.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randweg_Eindhoven https://nl.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randweg_Eindhoven (Google translated: https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&nv=1&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=https://nl.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randweg_Eindhoven&xid=17259,15700002,15700023,15700186,15700190,15700256,15700259&usg=ALkJrhjdKpMDZzxw53KHKzlqjG6Kd681Xg https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&...)