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To refresh your ideas on CL (I know I needed it): https://github.com/CodyReichert/awesome-cl https://github.com/CodyReichert/awesome-cl There may be more librar

To refresh your ideas on CL (I know I needed it): https://github.com/CodyReichert/awesome-cl https://github.com/CodyReichert/awesome-cl There may be more libraries than you think. Also recently some usual complaints have been fixed: - hard to set up environment ? -> http://portacle.github.io/ http://portacle.github.io/ There's also Lem, and Atom is getting good. https://lispcookbook.github.io/cl-cookbook/editor-support.html https://lispcookbook.github.io/cl-cookbook/editor-support.ht... - horrible website ? http://common-lisp.net/ http://common-lisp.net/ (they fixed it last year) Also http://lisp-lang.org/ http://lisp-lang.org/ - no cross-platform, featureful GUI library ? -> https://github.com/lispnik/iup/ https://github.com/lispnik/iup/ (alpha) There's also Qtools for Qt4. And Ltk, but Tk lacks widgets. - no object-oriented, generic math or equality operators ? -> https://github.com/alex-gutev/generic-cl/ https://github.com/alex-gutev/generic-cl/ - no decent library for numerical computing ? -> https://github.com/numcl/numcl https://github.com/numcl/numcl - waiting one month to publish your library into Quicklisp is too much ? -> http://ultralisp.org/ http://ultralisp.org/ - lack of online beginner friendly documentation ? -> https://lispcookbook.github.io/cl-cookbook/ https://lispcookbook.github.io/cl-cookbook/

0x445442 7y ago
The lack of a really good open source IDE or IDE plugin is a real road block for a number of people. Pointing folks to Emacs or an Emacs derivative is is not the solution. I know there is a couple of IDE plugins for Clojure and I think it would help if there were similar options for Common Lisp. I know there used to be a plugin for Eclipse (Cusp) but that appears to have died.
- newusertoday 7y ago
  why is emacs not a solution? the link provided by parent is excellent beginner friendly environment ( http://portacle.github.io/ http://portacle.github.io/).
  - 0x445442 7y ago
    I'm not slamming Emacs. I'm just pointing out that there are millions of developers that won't use it and making it a, more or less, requirement to get into Common Lisp is not good.
    - PuercoPop 7y ago
      > I'm just pointing out that there are millions of developers that won't use You are just stating it. Without any reason. One can't argue against a statement, you have to provide reasons behind your statement for there to be an argument. For example: "Asking people to use an editor where C-c doesn't copy and they have to relearn the keybindings is an unnecessary barrier of entry". I would agree with that and note that as a stop measure they can use the mouse for most tasks so they can postpone learning Emacs until they have learned CL. If you are on OSX CCL has an alternate IDE that's pretty good. Otherwise you can pay Lispworks or Allegro. Yeah it would be awesome if there were a multitude of IDEs, but people are not going to write IDEs for environments they don't use for free, it is unreasonable to expect that. I've never heard people say 'it is unreasonable to ask people to use Android Studio to develop for Android' so I'm not inclined to agree that it is unreasonable to ask people to use a Emacs to develop for CL. Especially after Shinmera has gone to great lengths to package a pre configured version. I know of a recent lisper that just uses Emacs for CL without previous Emacs exposure. It is an unnecessary barrier, but not more than a hump.
      - oblio 7y ago
        I won't use Emacs because I want a smart editor or IDE, not an editor construction toolkit. I have no interest in micro-optimizing my editor.
        dragonwriter 7y ago
        > I won't use Emacs because I want a smart editor or IDE, not an editor construction toolkit. I have no interest in micro-optimizing my editor. Pretty much all "smart editors or IDEs" that are available are editor construction toolkits bundled with add-ons which make completed editors using the toolkit for a variety of special purposes, and with an ecosystem (first party and/or community) of additional add-ons available. Visual Studio, Visual Studio Code, Eclipse, IntelliJ and its various cousins, etc., all fit the model. Emacs fits in with the rest in this regard (in fact, its one of the earliest inspirational models for what the field has become, probably the earliest example of the now-dominant model that is still actively maintained and widely used.)
  - bitwize 7y ago
    Because it's 2019 and most developers don't want to use a UI from the 1970s.
    - agumonkey 7y ago
      Until they do
- vindarel 7y ago
  See the "editor-support" link: there's the Dandelion plugin for Eclipse, although basic; I said Atom support is getting very good. There's Vim, a basic plugin for VS Code, and Lem, a self-contained editor ready to use for CL and many other languages (though it is "emacsy", same keybindings by default, vim-mode included). There's a Jupyter kernel and a terminal-friendly ipython-like repl.
  - 0x445442 7y ago
    Dandelion doesn't run on linux
    - vindarel 7y ago
      I tried it on Linux though.
- lispm 7y ago
  On my computers I use a commercial system with its own editor (Mac/Linux) and a free one (Clozure CL on Mac), also with its own editor.
- m463 7y ago
  I watched a fascinating presentation and when I saw the speaker typing (lambda ...) and having it change to (λ ...) and not having to deal with parens.. I was jealous. Does emacs do this? EDIT: the presentation: William Byrd on "The Most Beautiful Program Ever Written" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyfBQmvr2Hc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyfBQmvr2Hc
  - Jim_Heckler 7y ago
    Yes, M-x prettify-symbols-mode, it's very cool. For parens, there's the built-in electric-pair-mode, paredit, smartparens, and lispy.
  - dTal 7y ago
    Some languages understand λ directly (and in all lisps that support unicode, you can explicitly alias it) - I've occasionally mapped AltGr+L to λ, when playing with those. It's really nice. APL perhaps goes a little far, but I'd like to see more standardized symbols in programming languages. Imagine how nice it would be to succinctly use things like the actual outer-product operator ⊗...
    - m463 7y ago
      > APL perhaps goes a little far When I learned APL long ago in a languages course, it was on a dedicated APL setup with an APL keyboard. In that context, it was a "how SHOULD things be" sort of design decision. I know I started off quickly thinking in terms of math and the language, not composing symbols. Of course, APL keyboards have gone the way of the dodo and so the language has a higher barrier to entry.
  - vindarel 7y ago
    You can also use shorter lambda forms: https://github.com/CodyReichert/awesome-cl#lambda-shorthands https://github.com/CodyReichert/awesome-cl#lambda-shorthands
white-flame 7y ago
- library download manager ? -> https://www.quicklisp.org/ https://www.quicklisp.org/ (over 1500 libs)

0x445442 7y ago

The lack of a really good open source IDE or IDE plugin is a real road block for a number of people. Pointing folks to Emacs or an Emacs derivative is is not the solution. I know there is a couple of IDE plugins for Clojure and I think it would help if there were similar options for Common Lisp. I know there used to be a plugin for Eclipse (Cusp) but that appears to have died.

newusertoday 7y ago
why is emacs not a solution? the link provided by parent is excellent beginner friendly environment ( http://portacle.github.io/ http://portacle.github.io/).
- 0x445442 7y ago
  I'm not slamming Emacs. I'm just pointing out that there are millions of developers that won't use it and making it a, more or less, requirement to get into Common Lisp is not good.
  - PuercoPop 7y ago
    > I'm just pointing out that there are millions of developers that won't use You are just stating it. Without any reason. One can't argue against a statement, you have to provide reasons behind your statement for there to be an argument. For example: "Asking people to use an editor where C-c doesn't copy and they have to relearn the keybindings is an unnecessary barrier of entry". I would agree with that and note that as a stop measure they can use the mouse for most tasks so they can postpone learning Emacs until they have learned CL. If you are on OSX CCL has an alternate IDE that's pretty good. Otherwise you can pay Lispworks or Allegro. Yeah it would be awesome if there were a multitude of IDEs, but people are not going to write IDEs for environments they don't use for free, it is unreasonable to expect that. I've never heard people say 'it is unreasonable to ask people to use Android Studio to develop for Android' so I'm not inclined to agree that it is unreasonable to ask people to use a Emacs to develop for CL. Especially after Shinmera has gone to great lengths to package a pre configured version. I know of a recent lisper that just uses Emacs for CL without previous Emacs exposure. It is an unnecessary barrier, but not more than a hump.
    - oblio 7y ago
      I won't use Emacs because I want a smart editor or IDE, not an editor construction toolkit. I have no interest in micro-optimizing my editor.
      - dragonwriter 7y ago
        > I won't use Emacs because I want a smart editor or IDE, not an editor construction toolkit. I have no interest in micro-optimizing my editor. Pretty much all "smart editors or IDEs" that are available are editor construction toolkits bundled with add-ons which make completed editors using the toolkit for a variety of special purposes, and with an ecosystem (first party and/or community) of additional add-ons available. Visual Studio, Visual Studio Code, Eclipse, IntelliJ and its various cousins, etc., all fit the model. Emacs fits in with the rest in this regard (in fact, its one of the earliest inspirational models for what the field has become, probably the earliest example of the now-dominant model that is still actively maintained and widely used.)
- bitwize 7y ago
  Because it's 2019 and most developers don't want to use a UI from the 1970s.
  - agumonkey 7y ago
    Until they do
vindarel 7y ago
See the "editor-support" link: there's the Dandelion plugin for Eclipse, although basic; I said Atom support is getting very good. There's Vim, a basic plugin for VS Code, and Lem, a self-contained editor ready to use for CL and many other languages (though it is "emacsy", same keybindings by default, vim-mode included). There's a Jupyter kernel and a terminal-friendly ipython-like repl.
- 0x445442 7y ago
  Dandelion doesn't run on linux
  - vindarel 7y ago
    I tried it on Linux though.
lispm 7y ago
On my computers I use a commercial system with its own editor (Mac/Linux) and a free one (Clozure CL on Mac), also with its own editor.
m463 7y ago
I watched a fascinating presentation and when I saw the speaker typing (lambda ...) and having it change to (λ ...) and not having to deal with parens.. I was jealous. Does emacs do this? EDIT: the presentation: William Byrd on "The Most Beautiful Program Ever Written" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyfBQmvr2Hc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyfBQmvr2Hc
- Jim_Heckler 7y ago
  Yes, M-x prettify-symbols-mode, it's very cool. For parens, there's the built-in electric-pair-mode, paredit, smartparens, and lispy.
- dTal 7y ago
  Some languages understand λ directly (and in all lisps that support unicode, you can explicitly alias it) - I've occasionally mapped AltGr+L to λ, when playing with those. It's really nice. APL perhaps goes a little far, but I'd like to see more standardized symbols in programming languages. Imagine how nice it would be to succinctly use things like the actual outer-product operator ⊗...
  - m463 7y ago
    > APL perhaps goes a little far When I learned APL long ago in a languages course, it was on a dedicated APL setup with an APL keyboard. In that context, it was a "how SHOULD things be" sort of design decision. I know I started off quickly thinking in terms of math and the language, not composing symbols. Of course, APL keyboards have gone the way of the dodo and so the language has a higher barrier to entry.
- vindarel 7y ago
  You can also use shorter lambda forms: https://github.com/CodyReichert/awesome-cl#lambda-shorthands https://github.com/CodyReichert/awesome-cl#lambda-shorthands

white-flame 7y ago

- library download manager ? -> https://www.quicklisp.org/ https://www.quicklisp.org/ (over 1500 libs)