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I don't disagree with anything in that article, but Jony Ive's legacy is not merely the iPhone, the Watch, and the most recent MacBook Pros. It's also the iMac,

by delish 7y ago

I don't disagree with anything in that article, but Jony Ive's legacy is not merely the iPhone, the Watch, and the most recent MacBook Pros. It's also the iMac, the PowerMac G5, the Wall Street PowerBook, the unibody MacBook Pro--I can go on. And don't forget that Steve Jobs hated that there were screws on the Apple II and Macintosh--he wanted the devices to be appliances you sell when you're done with, and buy a new one. And another point: Phones and computers were plastic before Jobs and Ive. Now they're the strongest glass, and aluminum and steel. Those are improvements both to reliability and repairability. The article may be justified in saying that Ive's most recent products form his legacy, but I remember much more when I think about Apple.

LIV2 7y ago
Apple products are the least repairable they've ever been with glued in batteries, soldered ram & ssd, pentalove screws (an effort to keep people out) iMacs are glued shut etc etc. To replace the battery on a modern MacBook they have to replace the entire top case, keyboard and trackpad too which is hardly an improvement when it comes to repairability
close04 7y ago
> Now they're the strongest glass, and aluminum and steel. Those are improvements both to reliability and repairability. What are reliability and repairability from your perspective? Years of iFixit teardowns disagree with you. Normal screws instead of glue, and removable/replaceable covers and inner components increase the repairability of a phone. Using glass and metal says nothing about the ease of repair. Which phone is more repairable now that screens and batteries (the 2 most commonly replaced components) are glued and/or sealed in, or the chances of finding an after-market glass back for it are 0? And the only place where the reliability increased is scratch and wear resistance. Take an older polycarbonate phone (say a Lumia) and chances are you can easily drop it from height with no obvious damage. My iPhone's glass front and back might crack if I look at it the wrong way.
- newsoul2019 7y ago
  Realistically we take these beautiful designs and wrap them in Otter Boxes (and similar)
  - close04 7y ago
    Seems that today's beauty comes at the cost of fragility and repairability. And perhaps worse, just as you said, also at the cost of not being able to see it behind the sturdy phone covers many end up using.
jadell 7y ago
> he wanted the devices to be appliances you sell when you're done with, and buy a new one Appliances used to be repairable. People kept things like ovens, fridges and washing machines for decades, repairing them when needed. Companies long before Apple started the "planned obsolescence" treadmill for appliances, but companies like Apple sure didn't help. It's arguable they made the situation worse, because a lot of the components in tech are more damaging to the environment to extract, process, and throw away than many of the components in household appliances.
- delish 7y ago
  Thanks--maybe I'm misquoting Steve Jobs. He meant that you-the-end-user weren't supposed to open it up. If they were repaired, he wanted them repaired by professionals. Unfortunately I don't have the quote in front of me. And my point is: The article says it's about Jony Ive, but he's a metonymy for iFixit's bete noir: Apple. (I'm not saying iFixit is wrong!)
  - jadell 7y ago
    Changing the battery in a phone isn't a job that needs to be done by professionals. Normal people do it with their other battery-powered devices all the time. The only reason to make it any other way is so you can make more money off of people who've already paid for your product, or to upsell people on getting a new phone for only a small increase over the price you would charge them to change the battery. There's no other motive here besides greed.
    - Tempest1981 7y ago
      I wouldn't say "the only reason". A sealed case can help with waterproofing, strength, and of course thinness. You can now have BestBuy replace your battery for $49, which isn't too terrible. Other shops charge $39.
  - blub 7y ago
    Besides what a sibling commenter mentioned about batteries, some Apple products can't even be repaired by the professionals at Apple themselves any more: the MBP screen has to be swapped if a tiny cable breaks. These kinds of decisions have no excuse.
andrei_says_ 7y ago
I loved this comment until “improvements in ... repairability.” May I suggest referencing an expert’s opinion? Louis Rossman, an expert Apple repair tech from NYC has been documenting Apple’s aggressive anti-repairability tactics for a long time. He has hundreds of YouTube videos — repairing Apple laptops and commenting on their quality and engineering decisions. Here’s one of many videos https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vA_em-0VYWY https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vA_em-0VYWY

by delish 7y ago

LIV2 7y ago

Apple products are the least repairable they've ever been with glued in batteries, soldered ram & ssd, pentalove screws (an effort to keep people out) iMacs are glued shut etc etc. To replace the battery on a modern MacBook they have to replace the entire top case, keyboard and trackpad too which is hardly an improvement when it comes to repairability

close04 7y ago

> Now they're the strongest glass, and aluminum and steel. Those are improvements both to reliability and repairability. What are reliability and repairability from your perspective? Years of iFixit teardowns disagree with you. Normal screws instead of glue, and removable/replaceable covers and inner components increase the repairability of a phone. Using glass and metal says nothing about the ease of repair. Which phone is more repairable now that screens and batteries (the 2 most commonly replaced components) are glued and/or sealed in, or the chances of finding an after-market glass back for it are 0? And the only place where the reliability increased is scratch and wear resistance. Take an older polycarbonate phone (say a Lumia) and chances are you can easily drop it from height with no obvious damage. My iPhone's glass front and back might crack if I look at it the wrong way.

newsoul2019 7y ago
Realistically we take these beautiful designs and wrap them in Otter Boxes (and similar)
- close04 7y ago
  Seems that today's beauty comes at the cost of fragility and repairability. And perhaps worse, just as you said, also at the cost of not being able to see it behind the sturdy phone covers many end up using.

jadell 7y ago

> he wanted the devices to be appliances you sell when you're done with, and buy a new one Appliances used to be repairable. People kept things like ovens, fridges and washing machines for decades, repairing them when needed. Companies long before Apple started the "planned obsolescence" treadmill for appliances, but companies like Apple sure didn't help. It's arguable they made the situation worse, because a lot of the components in tech are more damaging to the environment to extract, process, and throw away than many of the components in household appliances.

delish 7y ago
Thanks--maybe I'm misquoting Steve Jobs. He meant that you-the-end-user weren't supposed to open it up. If they were repaired, he wanted them repaired by professionals. Unfortunately I don't have the quote in front of me. And my point is: The article says it's about Jony Ive, but he's a metonymy for iFixit's bete noir: Apple. (I'm not saying iFixit is wrong!)
- jadell 7y ago
  Changing the battery in a phone isn't a job that needs to be done by professionals. Normal people do it with their other battery-powered devices all the time. The only reason to make it any other way is so you can make more money off of people who've already paid for your product, or to upsell people on getting a new phone for only a small increase over the price you would charge them to change the battery. There's no other motive here besides greed.
  - Tempest1981 7y ago
    I wouldn't say "the only reason". A sealed case can help with waterproofing, strength, and of course thinness. You can now have BestBuy replace your battery for $49, which isn't too terrible. Other shops charge $39.
- blub 7y ago
  Besides what a sibling commenter mentioned about batteries, some Apple products can't even be repaired by the professionals at Apple themselves any more: the MBP screen has to be swapped if a tiny cable breaks. These kinds of decisions have no excuse.

andrei_says_ 7y ago

I loved this comment until “improvements in ... repairability.” May I suggest referencing an expert’s opinion? Louis Rossman, an expert Apple repair tech from NYC has been documenting Apple’s aggressive anti-repairability tactics for a long time. He has hundreds of YouTube videos — repairing Apple laptops and commenting on their quality and engineering decisions. Here’s one of many videos https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vA_em-0VYWY https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vA_em-0VYWY