4 ms·

You're reasoning as though the prosecution and police officers have no incentive to lie when they do. They are under pressure to make arrests and make them stic

You're reasoning as though the prosecution and police officers have no incentive to lie when they do. They are under pressure to make arrests and make them stick. That's their 'job'. So, both sides have an incentive to lie. Juries give credence to law enforcement testimony out of deference to authority.

stretchwithme 16y ago
maybe we need better incentives and I think we used to have better incentives, back when enforcement was local and directly responsible to the parents of those whose heads they might crack. Of course, they weren't always fair to people just passing through. The community relationships of the past have been weakened and/or replaced with relationships to politicians and unions. I see no reason why the police should not be subjected to rule of law like the rest of us.
- billswift 16y ago
  Local law like this? >> For fifteen minutes the Long Beach Police watched Douglas Zerby sitting on an interior courtyard stoop playing with a toy gun. They never announced their presence. There was no danger to anyone. They never announced their presence. There were at least five police officers there. Then, after fifteen minutes, two or three of them opened fire with shotguns and pistols. There was no warning, and no command to drop the weapon. Apparently his first notification that the police were present was to be shot dead. This, according to the LBPD, was to protect the citizens and make certain no one got hurt. Heroic. << From http://www.jerrypournelle.com/view/2010/Q4/view653.html#Friday http://www.jerrypournelle.com/view/2010/Q4/view653.html#Frid...
  - BrandonM 16y ago
    That story is messed up for sure, but I really doubt Long Beach is the kind local small-town law enforcement the grandparent post is talking about.
- khafra 16y ago
  I think you were misread by whoever downvoted you. I agree that the incentive structure for LEOs needs to change dramatically; and that the incentives for Barney Fife were more conducive to effective and non-abusive police work than today's. Unfortunately, I doubt fixing LEO incentives will be as simple as rewinding the USA to Andy Griffith.
  - stretchwithme 16y ago
    yeah, but there is a big kernel of truth there. I think part of the problem is the fact that cities really don't care about people that are unhappy with their governance. If parts of the city could withdraw from the legal arrangement if they are unhappy, cities would try a lot harder. I really doubt that the now ridiculous pensions many government workers have would be possible if governments were subject to more discipline than "Oh, shit, we've run out of money." Which is why I like the Swiss cantons. The people of any given part of a canton can vote to leave, join another, or start a new canton. Government needs competition just like the rest of us. We have traditionally thought of competition as impossible or requiring violence, but that does not have to be the case.

stretchwithme 16y ago

maybe we need better incentives and I think we used to have better incentives, back when enforcement was local and directly responsible to the parents of those whose heads they might crack. Of course, they weren't always fair to people just passing through. The community relationships of the past have been weakened and/or replaced with relationships to politicians and unions. I see no reason why the police should not be subjected to rule of law like the rest of us.

billswift 16y ago
Local law like this? >> For fifteen minutes the Long Beach Police watched Douglas Zerby sitting on an interior courtyard stoop playing with a toy gun. They never announced their presence. There was no danger to anyone. They never announced their presence. There were at least five police officers there. Then, after fifteen minutes, two or three of them opened fire with shotguns and pistols. There was no warning, and no command to drop the weapon. Apparently his first notification that the police were present was to be shot dead. This, according to the LBPD, was to protect the citizens and make certain no one got hurt. Heroic. << From http://www.jerrypournelle.com/view/2010/Q4/view653.html#Friday http://www.jerrypournelle.com/view/2010/Q4/view653.html#Frid...
- BrandonM 16y ago
  That story is messed up for sure, but I really doubt Long Beach is the kind local small-town law enforcement the grandparent post is talking about.
khafra 16y ago
I think you were misread by whoever downvoted you. I agree that the incentive structure for LEOs needs to change dramatically; and that the incentives for Barney Fife were more conducive to effective and non-abusive police work than today's. Unfortunately, I doubt fixing LEO incentives will be as simple as rewinding the USA to Andy Griffith.
- stretchwithme 16y ago
  yeah, but there is a big kernel of truth there. I think part of the problem is the fact that cities really don't care about people that are unhappy with their governance. If parts of the city could withdraw from the legal arrangement if they are unhappy, cities would try a lot harder. I really doubt that the now ridiculous pensions many government workers have would be possible if governments were subject to more discipline than "Oh, shit, we've run out of money." Which is why I like the Swiss cantons. The people of any given part of a canton can vote to leave, join another, or start a new canton. Government needs competition just like the rest of us. We have traditionally thought of competition as impossible or requiring violence, but that does not have to be the case.