4 ms·

If our end goal is a body of mathematicians that closely reflects society at large, it's pretty important to understand what factors influence participation in

If our end goal is a body of mathematicians that closely reflects society at large, it's pretty important to understand what factors influence participation in mathematics in under-represented groups, no?

pmdulaney 7y ago
I think our goal should not be a body of mathematicians (or coders or nurses or NBA players) that closely reflects society at large, but an entry process that is fair. And the first and foremost tenet of fairness must be that each human be treated as an individual, not as the member of some group.
- sterkekoffie 7y ago
  I took your post quite literally--if you believe in equality of outcome, studies like this are important. Personally, I disagree with you in principle, as I think there often aspects of human capital that can only be seen on the level of organization and not the individual. What it means to reflect society in a meaningful way differs depending on the role, but as a practice it has the potential to reduce oversight by leveraging a variety of perspectives.
  - pmdulaney 7y ago
    I appreciate your civility. My advice to you is to avoid bureaucratic/academic language that is nearly devoid of meaning. For example, "there [are] often aspects of human capital that can only be seen on the level of organization and not the individual" and "it has the potential to reduce oversight by leveraging a variety of perspectives."
    - sterkekoffie 7y ago
      For examples to illustrate: a group of QA testers that consists entirely of pale-skinned people is going to be collectively less qualified at testing a face recognition tool than a group with a range of skin tones. A school board consisting entirely of people from a particular geographic area is less able to fully account for local concerns and logistics than one with members from a broad area. Diversity for diversity's sake can be a real advantage when you think carefully about what diversity looks like for your project. If you don't see the potential, that's fine, I have no interest in persuading you. My advice to you is that sometimes when you don't understand something, it's not because it was poorly written. But sorry for the typo ;)

pmdulaney 7y ago

I think our goal should not be a body of mathematicians (or coders or nurses or NBA players) that closely reflects society at large, but an entry process that is fair. And the first and foremost tenet of fairness must be that each human be treated as an individual, not as the member of some group.

sterkekoffie 7y ago
I took your post quite literally--if you believe in equality of outcome, studies like this are important. Personally, I disagree with you in principle, as I think there often aspects of human capital that can only be seen on the level of organization and not the individual. What it means to reflect society in a meaningful way differs depending on the role, but as a practice it has the potential to reduce oversight by leveraging a variety of perspectives.
- pmdulaney 7y ago
  I appreciate your civility. My advice to you is to avoid bureaucratic/academic language that is nearly devoid of meaning. For example, "there [are] often aspects of human capital that can only be seen on the level of organization and not the individual" and "it has the potential to reduce oversight by leveraging a variety of perspectives."
  - sterkekoffie 7y ago
    For examples to illustrate: a group of QA testers that consists entirely of pale-skinned people is going to be collectively less qualified at testing a face recognition tool than a group with a range of skin tones. A school board consisting entirely of people from a particular geographic area is less able to fully account for local concerns and logistics than one with members from a broad area. Diversity for diversity's sake can be a real advantage when you think carefully about what diversity looks like for your project. If you don't see the potential, that's fine, I have no interest in persuading you. My advice to you is that sometimes when you don't understand something, it's not because it was poorly written. But sorry for the typo ;)