4 ms·

I can't read it. Why do they give up?

by notus 7y ago

colechristensen 7y ago
Abstract >We use lab experiments and field data from the Dutch Math Olympiad to show that women are more likely than men to stop competing if they lose. In a math competition in the lab, women are much less likely than men to choose competition again after losing in the first round. In the Math Olympiad, girls, but not boys, who fail to make the second round are less likely to compete again one year later. This gender difference in the reaction to competition outcomes may help to explain why fewer women make it to the top in business and academia.
- Zenst 7y ago
  The whole mentality of presuming those that do not win will try try again and learn from the experience often ignores that for some, it is logical to learn from the experience and move on in another direction all together. Hence a further deeper study would be inciteful. Did those who did not try again, try something else and shift focus and how well did they do in that new focus. That would be the biggest question.
  - noobiemcfoob 7y ago
    Follow this strategy too many times and you're out of new foci. It's particularly concerning if you're more fragile against the early challenges associated with a new endeavor. Many things won't look fruitful until you stick with them long enough to see over the first hill.
    - colechristensen 7y ago
      Risk-taking diversity has value in a population. It is believable that there are sex and age based differences in the distribution of risk taking as a result of both culture and biology. Bias for or against an individual based on these tendencies is wrong when used to pre-judge that person. What about the outcome bias for people or groups with differing risk tendencies? Is it morally necessary to compensate for different risk strategies? Which ones and to what degree? Which sources of cause should get this privilege and which shouldn't? There is a vocal group that insists that any disparity in outcome needs to be corrected, at least for their preferred groups. There is another that insists that it is immoral to punish (in any way) the hard work and other characteristics that lead to success outcomes.
      - noobiemcfoob 7y ago
        You...really seem to be reading into my post. Moral necessity for rewarding different risk strategies? No, I'm not making any overarching claims to be taken up and enforced by a government or similar entity. And diversity of most sorts has value in a population. Actually, my biggest take away from all this is that it is even more important to stop framing things as zero-sum competitions and more as collaborations where an individual can find a space fitting of their grit, skills and interests.
- pkaye 7y ago
  I'd be curious if this applies to all countries.
- lonelappde 7y ago
  Take that study with a mountain of salt. Gender, math, and artificial contests is a fraught combination of topics.
- twic 7y ago
  Related finding from interviewing.io: http://blog.interviewing.io/we-built-voice-modulation-to-mask-gender-in-technical-interviews-heres-what-happened/ http://blog.interviewing.io/we-built-voice-modulation-to-mas...
ISL 7y ago
While the article is paywalled, the data and analysis code are not. I'm not familiar with the programming language nor the file format. In addition, a 2016 draft of the paper appears to be available here (found by searching for the paper's title): https://site.stanford.edu/sites/g/files/sbiybj8706/f/buser-yuan-2016.pdf https://site.stanford.edu/sites/g/files/sbiybj8706/f/buser-y...
- seeker61 7y ago
  I think the language is Stata's built-in "do-file" language. The datasets are probably Stat's format as well.
TimTheTinker 7y ago
Did you give up attempting to read it? :-D
stevesimmons 7y ago
Why did you give up? Are you a woman? (... just kidding, of course...) Ungated PDF is here: https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Do-Women-Give-Up-Competing-More-Easily-Evidence-the-Buser-Yuan/e4fe7bf9660b1c219a238c892fe82b47a395a292 https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Do-Women-Give-Up-Compe...

I can't read it. Why do they give up?

by notus 7y ago

I can't read it. Why do they give up?

Abstract >We use lab experiments and field data from the Dutch Math Olympiad to show that women are more likely than men to stop competing if they lose. In a math competition in the lab, women are much less likely than men to choose competition again after losing in the first round. In the Math Olympiad, girls, but not boys, who fail to make the second round are less likely to compete again one year later. This gender difference in the reaction to competition outcomes may help to explain why fewer women make it to the top in business and academia.

Zenst 7y ago
The whole mentality of presuming those that do not win will try try again and learn from the experience often ignores that for some, it is logical to learn from the experience and move on in another direction all together. Hence a further deeper study would be inciteful. Did those who did not try again, try something else and shift focus and how well did they do in that new focus. That would be the biggest question.
- noobiemcfoob 7y ago
  Follow this strategy too many times and you're out of new foci. It's particularly concerning if you're more fragile against the early challenges associated with a new endeavor. Many things won't look fruitful until you stick with them long enough to see over the first hill.
  - colechristensen 7y ago
    Risk-taking diversity has value in a population. It is believable that there are sex and age based differences in the distribution of risk taking as a result of both culture and biology. Bias for or against an individual based on these tendencies is wrong when used to pre-judge that person. What about the outcome bias for people or groups with differing risk tendencies? Is it morally necessary to compensate for different risk strategies? Which ones and to what degree? Which sources of cause should get this privilege and which shouldn't? There is a vocal group that insists that any disparity in outcome needs to be corrected, at least for their preferred groups. There is another that insists that it is immoral to punish (in any way) the hard work and other characteristics that lead to success outcomes.
    - noobiemcfoob 7y ago
      You...really seem to be reading into my post. Moral necessity for rewarding different risk strategies? No, I'm not making any overarching claims to be taken up and enforced by a government or similar entity. And diversity of most sorts has value in a population. Actually, my biggest take away from all this is that it is even more important to stop framing things as zero-sum competitions and more as collaborations where an individual can find a space fitting of their grit, skills and interests.
pkaye 7y ago
I'd be curious if this applies to all countries.
lonelappde 7y ago
Take that study with a mountain of salt. Gender, math, and artificial contests is a fraught combination of topics.
twic 7y ago
Related finding from interviewing.io: http://blog.interviewing.io/we-built-voice-modulation-to-mask-gender-in-technical-interviews-heres-what-happened/ http://blog.interviewing.io/we-built-voice-modulation-to-mas...

ISL 7y ago

While the article is paywalled, the data and analysis code are not. I'm not familiar with the programming language nor the file format. In addition, a 2016 draft of the paper appears to be available here (found by searching for the paper's title): https://site.stanford.edu/sites/g/files/sbiybj8706/f/buser-yuan-2016.pdf https://site.stanford.edu/sites/g/files/sbiybj8706/f/buser-y...

seeker61 7y ago
I think the language is Stata's built-in "do-file" language. The datasets are probably Stat's format as well.

TimTheTinker 7y ago

Did you give up attempting to read it? :-D

stevesimmons 7y ago

Why did you give up? Are you a woman? (... just kidding, of course...) Ungated PDF is here: https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Do-Women-Give-Up-Competing-More-Easily-Evidence-the-Buser-Yuan/e4fe7bf9660b1c219a238c892fe82b47a395a292 https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Do-Women-Give-Up-Compe...