4 ms·

Ok, so warrants fail. There are cases where people are held in contempt of court, essentially for life. Is that a good resolution to warrants being broadly, com

by txru 7y ago

Ok, so warrants fail. There are cases where people are held in contempt of court, essentially for life. Is that a good resolution to warrants being broadly, commonly enforceable? Those people aren't convicted of the crime they were accused for, in some cases they may have even forgotten the encryption key.

sailfast 7y ago
It's strange to me that this isn't somehow covered under the 5th amendment. How can you be compelled to provide something (say, an encryption key) that might incriminate you?
hedora 7y ago
Indefinite contempt charges are why forcing someone to hand over a password, encryption key, submit to biometrics, etc. needs to be banned. The current state of affairs is a clear violation of one of the US’s founding principles: “innocent until proven guilty” (and also the 5th amendment).
- txru 7y ago
  Remember, the Bill of Rights were tagged on after the Constitution. The Constitution establishes what powers the Government could and couldn't have, purely in its relationship with the constituent states. The Bill of Rights filter out what it doesn't. And in its vagueness, the Constitution claimed quite a lot. The ability, power, and right to investigate crimes is certainly reserved to both the states and the Fed. Government in the Constitution.
  - zaroth 7y ago
    The ability to not be forced to participation in one’s own prosecution is one of those rights the Constitution guarantees. The fact that modern life typically entails recording and documenting almost every single thing you do during the day, and yet law enforcement complains about “going dark”? Utter nonsense. People have never been more widely tracked, or more widely accountable. The absolute last thing we have is a privacy epidemic. The government has the right to investigate crimes. They do not have a specific right for defendants to keep records of what they did wrong or to be provided that evidence, outside the context of business regulations which require specific paperwork be maintained. And by the way, the Constitution specifically enumerates what powers the Federal government has. All Else is reserved to the States, or to the People. Which is why we weren’t supposed to need a Bill of Rights in the first place. The Constitution doesn’t enumerate Speech or Assembly as something the government can control, therefore it is not. However the Framers didn’t all agree we shouldn’t go and list a bunch of things just in case, except that it might make people think if it’s not listed then maybe it’s not a Right?
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

by txru 7y ago

sailfast 7y ago

It's strange to me that this isn't somehow covered under the 5th amendment. How can you be compelled to provide something (say, an encryption key) that might incriminate you?

hedora 7y ago

Indefinite contempt charges are why forcing someone to hand over a password, encryption key, submit to biometrics, etc. needs to be banned. The current state of affairs is a clear violation of one of the US’s founding principles: “innocent until proven guilty” (and also the 5th amendment).

txru 7y ago
Remember, the Bill of Rights were tagged on after the Constitution. The Constitution establishes what powers the Government could and couldn't have, purely in its relationship with the constituent states. The Bill of Rights filter out what it doesn't. And in its vagueness, the Constitution claimed quite a lot. The ability, power, and right to investigate crimes is certainly reserved to both the states and the Fed. Government in the Constitution.
- zaroth 7y ago
  The ability to not be forced to participation in one’s own prosecution is one of those rights the Constitution guarantees. The fact that modern life typically entails recording and documenting almost every single thing you do during the day, and yet law enforcement complains about “going dark”? Utter nonsense. People have never been more widely tracked, or more widely accountable. The absolute last thing we have is a privacy epidemic. The government has the right to investigate crimes. They do not have a specific right for defendants to keep records of what they did wrong or to be provided that evidence, outside the context of business regulations which require specific paperwork be maintained. And by the way, the Constitution specifically enumerates what powers the Federal government has. All Else is reserved to the States, or to the People. Which is why we weren’t supposed to need a Bill of Rights in the first place. The Constitution doesn’t enumerate Speech or Assembly as something the government can control, therefore it is not. However the Framers didn’t all agree we shouldn’t go and list a bunch of things just in case, except that it might make people think if it’s not listed then maybe it’s not a Right?

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]