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I would be really interested in the legal format that they put such a restriction in.

by choeger 7y ago

rolltiide 7y ago
couldn't they just enforce the existing encryption export regulations to basically break the whole industry?
- loeg 7y ago
  Export regulations don't require breaking E2E privacy for same-country citizens; and notable E2E cryptographic software is developed outside the US, so US restrictions do not apply to it. So I don't really follow this line of reasoning.
  - rolltiide 7y ago
    but any software you make that uses e2e dependencies would be subject to the same export regulations, right? I mean, not even just e2e, just the normal ubiquitous encryption we all use is a "gift" from relaxed export restrictions along side non-enforcement. Some app stores still ask you if you obtained the export license or qualify for an exemption. The US government could just start enforcing that, fund the agency to enforce it. It doesn't matter about what it enables to citizens, no organization operating in the US would offer it because it would break their global business.
    - loeg 7y ago
      No, I believe that is basically incorrect.
      - rolltiide 7y ago
        I’m glad we changed each other’s minds
chatmasta 7y ago
My guess, based on recent history: It will be an executive order that requires companies with a communications product and over 500k users to implement lawful intercept protocols for communications between any two users. Most likely companies will repurpose their GDPR tools to provide standardized exports to authorities with legal intercept requests. The regulation will be written in such a way that it precludes end to end encryption as an option, rather than forbidding it specifically. Failure to comply with lawful intercept requests will result in a fine with high interest.
- codedokode 7y ago
  What about foreign companies from countries like China or Russia? How will they make them comply?
- abecedarius 7y ago
  An order on what authority?

I would be really interested in the legal format that they put such a restriction in.

rolltiide 7y ago

couldn't they just enforce the existing encryption export regulations to basically break the whole industry?

loeg 7y ago
Export regulations don't require breaking E2E privacy for same-country citizens; and notable E2E cryptographic software is developed outside the US, so US restrictions do not apply to it. So I don't really follow this line of reasoning.
- rolltiide 7y ago
  but any software you make that uses e2e dependencies would be subject to the same export regulations, right? I mean, not even just e2e, just the normal ubiquitous encryption we all use is a "gift" from relaxed export restrictions along side non-enforcement. Some app stores still ask you if you obtained the export license or qualify for an exemption. The US government could just start enforcing that, fund the agency to enforce it. It doesn't matter about what it enables to citizens, no organization operating in the US would offer it because it would break their global business.
  - loeg 7y ago
    No, I believe that is basically incorrect.
    - rolltiide 7y ago
      I’m glad we changed each other’s minds

chatmasta 7y ago

My guess, based on recent history: It will be an executive order that requires companies with a communications product and over 500k users to implement lawful intercept protocols for communications between any two users. Most likely companies will repurpose their GDPR tools to provide standardized exports to authorities with legal intercept requests. The regulation will be written in such a way that it precludes end to end encryption as an option, rather than forbidding it specifically. Failure to comply with lawful intercept requests will result in a fine with high interest.

codedokode 7y ago
What about foreign companies from countries like China or Russia? How will they make them comply?
abecedarius 7y ago
An order on what authority?