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Here's the current MBP priced around $1300. https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro/13-inch-space-gray-2.3ghz-dual-core-processor-with-turbo-boost-up-to

Here's the current MBP priced around $1300. https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro/13-inch-space-gray-2.3ghz-dual-core-processor-with-turbo-boost-up-to-3.6ghz-128gb https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro/13-inch-space... Here's the laptop I bought in September 2017 for about $1200 or $1100, now down to $840. https://www.walmart.com/ip/HP-Omen-15-ax250wm-15-6-Full-HD-IPS-Display-Core-i7-7700HQ-QC-Processor-NVIDIA-GTX-1050Ti-4GB-Graphics-Card-12GB-Memory-1TB-Hard-Drive/630174927 https://www.walmart.com/ip/HP-Omen-15-ax250wm-15-6-Full-HD-I... Screen: 13" vs 15.6" RAM: 8GB vs 12GB CPU: i5 vs i7 Intel Iris Plus Graphics 640 vs GTX 1050Ti 4GB 128GB SSD vs 1TB HDD, you can buy your own 1TB SSD for around $150, far from the $800 upcharge Apple wants to charge you for that option And mine doesn't need dongles to do basic tasks like plug in a mouse or ethernet cable or monitor. I've used Mac OS for a week at a time and it really seemed like nothing special. So $500 less and I get a bigger screen, more RAM, better CPU, much better GPU, much better disk space, actual USB/HDMI/ethernet ports, with no tangible downsides unless for some reason you literally cannot just get used to using Windows 10, which is a perfectly fine OS. Plus being able to run basically whatever games I want. Edit: And I just noticed the MBP doesn't even have a numpad. Another dealbreaker for me.

foldr 7y ago
Doesn't the model you link to have a non-retina display? It's hardly comparable. You're not paying for raw specs when you buy a mac. You're paying for the screen, the trackpad, the aesthetics, the thin profile, the battery life, the speakers and microphone, and the OS. Apple has the good taste not to max out the specs if it means sacrificing other, more important features. If you look for Windows laptops that check all the aforementioned boxes (leaving aside the trackpad, as none of them have good trackpads), you'll be paying just as much as you pay for a macbook.
- jimmaswell 7y ago
  Ok, here's something 4K with same or better other specs compared to mine, at $1000. https://www.amazon.com/VivoBook-Touchscreen-i7-7700HQ-GeForce-Essentials/dp/B077X9D48G https://www.amazon.com/VivoBook-Touchscreen-i7-7700HQ-GeForc... I've used the trackpad and looked at the screens of MBPs and it was nothing special. Didn't even realize the resolution was more than normal 1080p at the time. Battery life/speakers/microphone/trackpad are fine on mine. I don't see how you could think aesthetics are important enough to skimp out on power.
  - foldr 7y ago
    You can get a macbook air for not much more than $1000, with all the advantages that I mentioned. The ASUS laptop you link to has a poor battery life. You can't seriously claim that the macbook trackpads are not ahead of the competition. >Didn't even realize the resolution was more than normal 1080p at the time. Ok, but macbooks are targeted at the majority of people who can easily tell the difference.
    - jimmaswell 7y ago
      I'm sure I could tell it was over 1080p if I was paying close attention. It's mostly just passing familiarity being around coworker computers. Maybe Macbook trackpads really are that great but I have no complaints about mine. And I'm sure the battery life is fine if you turn on power saving features and don't leave intensive stuff running.
      - foldr 7y ago
        I'm just pointing out that there are real differences between a macbook and an $800 Windows laptop. Those differences may not matter to some people, which is fine. But it's simply not the case that the laptops you're linking to are comparable to macbooks. E.g., I would not switch to those laptops primarily because of the trackpad, screen, battery life and overall build quality.
lawik 7y ago
Well. I'm glad you can find computers that you find worth their price. I do use Windows 10 for gaming and some audio/video editing stuff, mostly because of ports and fat hardware. I don't enjoy dev work on it. I could get used to it. But I vastly prefer the way my workflow matches with MacOS. Good terminal, decent package management, good battery for travel. If I wanted another dev OS it would probably be a Linux. But I find the quality of execution on MacOS and the surrounding ecosystem to generally be better. I prefer the experience. If it costs a premium but shaves some frustration for me, that feels worthwhile at this time. It is fine that you don't want to pay that. Is it bothering you that I don't mind the higher price?
- jimmaswell 7y ago
  There's lots of bash implementations on Windows, some with package managers (msys2 has pacman). It's just one data point in the sum of everything that makes me lose faith in humanity's decision-making ability, like balance bracelets.
  - lawik 7y ago
    I feel like you are jumping to a lot of conclusions. I have worked with a number of different bash implementations and terminals on windows. I haven't found one I appreciated as much as the ones I use on MacOS or have used on Linux. Am I correct to understand that you dismiss my arguments about why I prefer another operating system and prefer a certain computer type in spite of higher cost as entirely invalid and part of some intellectual bankruptcy? You seem to have no interest in seeing how another perspective might make sense to another person. If I were to argue like you I'd go with "No one cares to pay for hardware and software anymore. That's why Google gets away with eroding our privacy. Your hardware is full of bloated driver management tools. Your operating system has ads. It is just one data point telling me that people have no standards and lousy taste." That's how I experience your arguments, no curiosity. I've been politely considering that your opinion probably reflects your needs. I would have appreciated the same courtesy. But what do I know. I'm just a signifier for humanity's decision-making. Bah.
    - 7y ago

foldr 7y ago

Doesn't the model you link to have a non-retina display? It's hardly comparable. You're not paying for raw specs when you buy a mac. You're paying for the screen, the trackpad, the aesthetics, the thin profile, the battery life, the speakers and microphone, and the OS. Apple has the good taste not to max out the specs if it means sacrificing other, more important features. If you look for Windows laptops that check all the aforementioned boxes (leaving aside the trackpad, as none of them have good trackpads), you'll be paying just as much as you pay for a macbook.

jimmaswell 7y ago
Ok, here's something 4K with same or better other specs compared to mine, at $1000. https://www.amazon.com/VivoBook-Touchscreen-i7-7700HQ-GeForce-Essentials/dp/B077X9D48G https://www.amazon.com/VivoBook-Touchscreen-i7-7700HQ-GeForc... I've used the trackpad and looked at the screens of MBPs and it was nothing special. Didn't even realize the resolution was more than normal 1080p at the time. Battery life/speakers/microphone/trackpad are fine on mine. I don't see how you could think aesthetics are important enough to skimp out on power.
- foldr 7y ago
  You can get a macbook air for not much more than $1000, with all the advantages that I mentioned. The ASUS laptop you link to has a poor battery life. You can't seriously claim that the macbook trackpads are not ahead of the competition. >Didn't even realize the resolution was more than normal 1080p at the time. Ok, but macbooks are targeted at the majority of people who can easily tell the difference.
  - jimmaswell 7y ago
    I'm sure I could tell it was over 1080p if I was paying close attention. It's mostly just passing familiarity being around coworker computers. Maybe Macbook trackpads really are that great but I have no complaints about mine. And I'm sure the battery life is fine if you turn on power saving features and don't leave intensive stuff running.
    - foldr 7y ago
      I'm just pointing out that there are real differences between a macbook and an $800 Windows laptop. Those differences may not matter to some people, which is fine. But it's simply not the case that the laptops you're linking to are comparable to macbooks. E.g., I would not switch to those laptops primarily because of the trackpad, screen, battery life and overall build quality.

lawik 7y ago

Well. I'm glad you can find computers that you find worth their price. I do use Windows 10 for gaming and some audio/video editing stuff, mostly because of ports and fat hardware. I don't enjoy dev work on it. I could get used to it. But I vastly prefer the way my workflow matches with MacOS. Good terminal, decent package management, good battery for travel. If I wanted another dev OS it would probably be a Linux. But I find the quality of execution on MacOS and the surrounding ecosystem to generally be better. I prefer the experience. If it costs a premium but shaves some frustration for me, that feels worthwhile at this time. It is fine that you don't want to pay that. Is it bothering you that I don't mind the higher price?

jimmaswell 7y ago
There's lots of bash implementations on Windows, some with package managers (msys2 has pacman). It's just one data point in the sum of everything that makes me lose faith in humanity's decision-making ability, like balance bracelets.
- lawik 7y ago
  I feel like you are jumping to a lot of conclusions. I have worked with a number of different bash implementations and terminals on windows. I haven't found one I appreciated as much as the ones I use on MacOS or have used on Linux. Am I correct to understand that you dismiss my arguments about why I prefer another operating system and prefer a certain computer type in spite of higher cost as entirely invalid and part of some intellectual bankruptcy? You seem to have no interest in seeing how another perspective might make sense to another person. If I were to argue like you I'd go with "No one cares to pay for hardware and software anymore. That's why Google gets away with eroding our privacy. Your hardware is full of bloated driver management tools. Your operating system has ads. It is just one data point telling me that people have no standards and lousy taste." That's how I experience your arguments, no curiosity. I've been politely considering that your opinion probably reflects your needs. I would have appreciated the same courtesy. But what do I know. I'm just a signifier for humanity's decision-making. Bah.
  - 7y ago