6 ms·

I felt the fear of abduction by China in Hong Kong

102 points by ishikawa 7y ago

NeedMoreTea 7y ago
I have to agree, though history doesn't bode well. A quarter of the population demonstrating is astonishing, but it's someone else's population. Decades of inviting China's leaders for some trade talks, and pointedly avoiding making mention of Xinjiang, Tibet or Hong Kong. Maybe make some mention after the Chinese have gone home. Never officially call Taiwan a country - don't upset them. Forget all that inconvenient history of how modern post-WW2 Taiwan, and Hong Kong came about. South Africa got decades of international sanctions, trade and sport embargoes. China got a few years of minor sanctions for Tiananmen, then ever more trade, more factories, more Western manufacturing. The US barely kept sanctions up for two years. The other Western nations weren't much different. Back to business as usual. Edit: At this moment, the story above this one on the front page is "Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China".
- merpnderp 7y ago
  Falling out of favor of the Chinese communist party has some deadly serious consequences. Those protestors in Hong Kong are braver than most people realize. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_re-education_camps https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_re-education_camps
- dsfyu404ed 7y ago
  China has something the west wants. South Africa mostly does not. That's unfortunately how these things work. If Russia were China they could have annexed Crimea without the West doing anything more than complaining.
  - maltalex 7y ago
    > If Russia were China they could have annexed Crimea without the West doing anything more than complaining. As opposed to what exactly?
    - dsfyu404ed 7y ago
      As opposed to a generally worsening relationship across the board. If China had done it it would have been back to business as usual in no time.
      - mantas 7y ago
        And Russia still is doing business almost as usual. Still getting factories built by Western companies, Nord Stream 2 coming along etc. The biggest change is probably Russia's own counter-sanctions on food imports.
  - AWildC182 7y ago
    The tone here is dismissive when it really shouldn't be, but it bears mentioning that they didn't annex a random peninsula, they annexed an entire ocean for their own use.
    - dsfyu404ed 7y ago
      What do you want me to do? I am merely explaining why the west is not up in arms over china. The answer is basically money. China has cheap manufacturing that enables western lifestyles at their current price point so a blind eye is turned. South Africa, Russia, etc, etc, do not so they get criticized. Sorry for not being sufficiently Outraged(TM). Yes. This sucks. Shitty things happen in the world all the time. Chinese authoritarianism is one of them. As someone literally on the other side of the world it is not high up the list of priorities for me. There are fires closer to home that need fighting first.
- ffn 7y ago
  Well the strategy was first to get the Chinese people addicted to wealth before moving on to discuss the issues of human rights (imaging trying to sanction a poor communist country - e.g. north korea - it will have no effect because the citizens there won't rise up in discontent to protect what they have if they have nothing). But given that China is currently the largest economy in the world right now, now is probably a good of a time as any to show that China needs to play fair internationally and locally in order to acquire the consent of other trade members
- PavlovsCat 7y ago
  > Edit: At this moment, the story above this one on the front page is "Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China". Well yeah, this one started to get penalized before it was even up 1 hour (before that, it was firmly glued to the very top), and is now completely off the front page. HN, publish flags and votes. Show us the underbelly. edit: and even though this story is now on page THREE, my comment got a downvote instantly, aww. Like not calling it out would change what some people are.
radiator 7y ago
The author describes his feelings. Since he went to Hong Kong and was in the end not abducted, someone holding a different opinion could argue that there was never an intention to abduct him. But no, supposedly this doesn't matter, what matters is how the author felt.
- FabHK 7y ago
  1. People have already been abducted illegally in HK, so this is not hypothetical. 2. A population cowering in justified fear is not "only feelings", but indicative of bad government.
FabHK 7y ago
A well-written article mixing personal narrative with exalted principles, and concluding with this stirring appeal: > At the G20 summit, world leaders should ignore the protestations of Beijing and insist on discussing not just the Hong Kong protests, but also the horrifying internment of Uighur Muslims in Xinjiang re-education camps. To simply raise these issues is not too much to ask of world leaders. All they need is a fraction of the courage, wisdom and compassion that the people of Hong Kong have shown. I hope world leaders will rise to the occasion.
umvi 7y ago
Despite Trump's many faults, I like that he acknowledges Taiwan. I think whoever the next president is should do the same to resist the PRC's relentless propaganda/narrative... hopefully it will give places like Hong Kong hope that other powerful nations stand with them.
- uranusjr 7y ago
  I hope some of your downvoters could elaborate what exactly you said wasn’t appropriate. You have my +1.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
Circuits 7y ago
"To those who can hear me, I say - do not despair. The misery that is now upon us is but the passing of greed - the bitterness of men who fear the way of human progress. The hate of men will pass, and dictators die, and the power they took from the people will return to the people. And so long as men die, liberty will never perish"
- wilkystyle 7y ago
  https://youtube.com/watch?v=OboaMnzYCMc https://youtube.com/watch?v=OboaMnzYCMc

102 points by ishikawa 7y ago

I have to agree, though history doesn't bode well. A quarter of the population demonstrating is astonishing, but it's someone else's population. Decades of inviting China's leaders for some trade talks, and pointedly avoiding making mention of Xinjiang, Tibet or Hong Kong. Maybe make some mention after the Chinese have gone home. Never officially call Taiwan a country - don't upset them. Forget all that inconvenient history of how modern post-WW2 Taiwan, and Hong Kong came about. South Africa got decades of international sanctions, trade and sport embargoes. China got a few years of minor sanctions for Tiananmen, then ever more trade, more factories, more Western manufacturing. The US barely kept sanctions up for two years. The other Western nations weren't much different. Back to business as usual. Edit: At this moment, the story above this one on the front page is "Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China".

merpnderp 7y ago
Falling out of favor of the Chinese communist party has some deadly serious consequences. Those protestors in Hong Kong are braver than most people realize. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_re-education_camps https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_re-education_camps
dsfyu404ed 7y ago
China has something the west wants. South Africa mostly does not. That's unfortunately how these things work. If Russia were China they could have annexed Crimea without the West doing anything more than complaining.
- maltalex 7y ago
  > If Russia were China they could have annexed Crimea without the West doing anything more than complaining. As opposed to what exactly?
  - dsfyu404ed 7y ago
    As opposed to a generally worsening relationship across the board. If China had done it it would have been back to business as usual in no time.
    - mantas 7y ago
      And Russia still is doing business almost as usual. Still getting factories built by Western companies, Nord Stream 2 coming along etc. The biggest change is probably Russia's own counter-sanctions on food imports.
- AWildC182 7y ago
  The tone here is dismissive when it really shouldn't be, but it bears mentioning that they didn't annex a random peninsula, they annexed an entire ocean for their own use.
  - dsfyu404ed 7y ago
    What do you want me to do? I am merely explaining why the west is not up in arms over china. The answer is basically money. China has cheap manufacturing that enables western lifestyles at their current price point so a blind eye is turned. South Africa, Russia, etc, etc, do not so they get criticized. Sorry for not being sufficiently Outraged(TM). Yes. This sucks. Shitty things happen in the world all the time. Chinese authoritarianism is one of them. As someone literally on the other side of the world it is not high up the list of priorities for me. There are fires closer to home that need fighting first.
ffn 7y ago
Well the strategy was first to get the Chinese people addicted to wealth before moving on to discuss the issues of human rights (imaging trying to sanction a poor communist country - e.g. north korea - it will have no effect because the citizens there won't rise up in discontent to protect what they have if they have nothing). But given that China is currently the largest economy in the world right now, now is probably a good of a time as any to show that China needs to play fair internationally and locally in order to acquire the consent of other trade members
PavlovsCat 7y ago
> Edit: At this moment, the story above this one on the front page is "Apple Moves Mac Pro Production to China". Well yeah, this one started to get penalized before it was even up 1 hour (before that, it was firmly glued to the very top), and is now completely off the front page. HN, publish flags and votes. Show us the underbelly. edit: and even though this story is now on page THREE, my comment got a downvote instantly, aww. Like not calling it out would change what some people are.

radiator 7y ago

The author describes his feelings. Since he went to Hong Kong and was in the end not abducted, someone holding a different opinion could argue that there was never an intention to abduct him. But no, supposedly this doesn't matter, what matters is how the author felt.

FabHK 7y ago
1. People have already been abducted illegally in HK, so this is not hypothetical. 2. A population cowering in justified fear is not "only feelings", but indicative of bad government.

FabHK 7y ago

A well-written article mixing personal narrative with exalted principles, and concluding with this stirring appeal: > At the G20 summit, world leaders should ignore the protestations of Beijing and insist on discussing not just the Hong Kong protests, but also the horrifying internment of Uighur Muslims in Xinjiang re-education camps. To simply raise these issues is not too much to ask of world leaders. All they need is a fraction of the courage, wisdom and compassion that the people of Hong Kong have shown. I hope world leaders will rise to the occasion.

umvi 7y ago

Despite Trump's many faults, I like that he acknowledges Taiwan. I think whoever the next president is should do the same to resist the PRC's relentless propaganda/narrative... hopefully it will give places like Hong Kong hope that other powerful nations stand with them.

uranusjr 7y ago
I hope some of your downvoters could elaborate what exactly you said wasn’t appropriate. You have my +1.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

Circuits 7y ago

"To those who can hear me, I say - do not despair. The misery that is now upon us is but the passing of greed - the bitterness of men who fear the way of human progress. The hate of men will pass, and dictators die, and the power they took from the people will return to the people. And so long as men die, liberty will never perish"

wilkystyle 7y ago
https://youtube.com/watch?v=OboaMnzYCMc https://youtube.com/watch?v=OboaMnzYCMc