4 ms·

Not everyone likes writing shell scripts to start services

by jamespo 7y ago

nisa 7y ago
Not everyone wants to talk dbus to configure the firewall :P
- pas 7y ago
  I just put iptables shit into /etc/rc.local and it works, no dbus needed :)
  - nisa 7y ago
    this was just a stupid comment on firewalld
hedora 7y ago
I haven’t written an init script in ten years. It is like coming home one day, and the house has been demolished. There’s a joker in a bulldozer proudly proclaiming there was some dog crap on the sidewalk, and that he took care of it for me.
- Scramblejams 7y ago
  Solid analogy. In the case of Systemd, it was fixing problems for me that I never had, and creating problems that I'd also never had: It broke laptop sleep. It broke /etc/rc.local. It broke domainless local DNS lookups. It broke boot on one of my servers (fstab's new nofail argument? really?) And it (soft) broke a keyboard of mine. A keyboard! Astonishing. I really wish Debian had not drunk that particular kool-aid. :'( I'd go somewhere else but Debian (and by extension Ubuntu) have been doing binary package management the longest, and for me it really shows. I want these boxes to just sit there for years, be extremely low maintenance and only pick up security updates, and I've never gotten a better experience anywhere else.
  - hrangozz 7y ago
    I've had a similarly good low-maintenance and dependable upgrade experience with CentOS
    - Scramblejams 7y ago
      CentOS ain't gonna get me away from systemd, though.
- nailer 7y ago
  > I haven’t written an init script in ten years. Me neither, but that's because of systemd. How do you make your own SysV service without making an init script?
johnr2 7y ago
>Not everyone likes writing shell scripts to start services Sure, but that isn't a good reason to remove the option to do so for everyone else. I've been using Linux for 20+ years but the apparent shift from "stable and reliable" to "new and shiny" concerns me. The feeling of being an involuntary beta tester is not a good one.
- rkangel 7y ago
  > that isn't a good reason to remove the option to do so for everyone else It really is. Accepting the status quo and abandoning progress is how software systems become stagnant and die. X is a bloated protocol, designed for a different age of computers. Sys V is an archaic system that makes the task of having a standard daemon run in a standard way surprisingly difficult (and also prevents parallelising startup). I'm not saying the replacements are perfect, but at least we're trying. Maintaining perfect backwards compatibility would have an effect on progress somewhere between 'making it harder' and 'making it impossible'. Not that backwards compatibility should be completely abandoned. See XWayland, and also the fact that SystemD does still execute init.d shell scripts.
  - zzzcpan 7y ago
    Every new piece of software is not progress, very little of it is actually innovative, none is better in every way and not that much of it is even usable. Having options at least accepts that, respects people's time and allows people to avoid suffering through it until it eventually dies anyway. Speaking of stagnation, reinventing anything "not invented here" is also stagnation, not progress.
  - tempguy9999 7y ago
    > and abandoning progress Change is not, itself alone, progress. Progress can be a lack of change, if that change was regression in functionality, q.v. the large and growing number of shitty interfaces. And by interface I mean everything from boeing's mistake right down to the controls on a fan heater of mine. I guess I need to explain the latter. I've had a period of joint pain in my hands due to a developing food intolerance (now under control). The fan heater control was a dial, partly flanged for grip. But just a fucking little flange, so as not to stick out too much. Trying to operate that with your digits hurting was a bitch. It would have been literally unusable for someone with strength loss from advanced age and some decent arthritis on top. Interfaces are a very broad category in my view, and we have far too many bad ones. Anyway, sorry for the rant, but don't confuse change with better.

Not everyone likes writing shell scripts to start services

nisa 7y ago

Not everyone wants to talk dbus to configure the firewall :P

pas 7y ago
I just put iptables shit into /etc/rc.local and it works, no dbus needed :)
- nisa 7y ago
  this was just a stupid comment on firewalld

hedora 7y ago

I haven’t written an init script in ten years. It is like coming home one day, and the house has been demolished. There’s a joker in a bulldozer proudly proclaiming there was some dog crap on the sidewalk, and that he took care of it for me.

Scramblejams 7y ago
Solid analogy. In the case of Systemd, it was fixing problems for me that I never had, and creating problems that I'd also never had: It broke laptop sleep. It broke /etc/rc.local. It broke domainless local DNS lookups. It broke boot on one of my servers (fstab's new nofail argument? really?) And it (soft) broke a keyboard of mine. A keyboard! Astonishing. I really wish Debian had not drunk that particular kool-aid. :'( I'd go somewhere else but Debian (and by extension Ubuntu) have been doing binary package management the longest, and for me it really shows. I want these boxes to just sit there for years, be extremely low maintenance and only pick up security updates, and I've never gotten a better experience anywhere else.
- hrangozz 7y ago
  I've had a similarly good low-maintenance and dependable upgrade experience with CentOS
  - Scramblejams 7y ago
    CentOS ain't gonna get me away from systemd, though.
nailer 7y ago
> I haven’t written an init script in ten years. Me neither, but that's because of systemd. How do you make your own SysV service without making an init script?

johnr2 7y ago

>Not everyone likes writing shell scripts to start services Sure, but that isn't a good reason to remove the option to do so for everyone else. I've been using Linux for 20+ years but the apparent shift from "stable and reliable" to "new and shiny" concerns me. The feeling of being an involuntary beta tester is not a good one.

rkangel 7y ago
> that isn't a good reason to remove the option to do so for everyone else It really is. Accepting the status quo and abandoning progress is how software systems become stagnant and die. X is a bloated protocol, designed for a different age of computers. Sys V is an archaic system that makes the task of having a standard daemon run in a standard way surprisingly difficult (and also prevents parallelising startup). I'm not saying the replacements are perfect, but at least we're trying. Maintaining perfect backwards compatibility would have an effect on progress somewhere between 'making it harder' and 'making it impossible'. Not that backwards compatibility should be completely abandoned. See XWayland, and also the fact that SystemD does still execute init.d shell scripts.
- zzzcpan 7y ago
  Every new piece of software is not progress, very little of it is actually innovative, none is better in every way and not that much of it is even usable. Having options at least accepts that, respects people's time and allows people to avoid suffering through it until it eventually dies anyway. Speaking of stagnation, reinventing anything "not invented here" is also stagnation, not progress.
- tempguy9999 7y ago
  > and abandoning progress Change is not, itself alone, progress. Progress can be a lack of change, if that change was regression in functionality, q.v. the large and growing number of shitty interfaces. And by interface I mean everything from boeing's mistake right down to the controls on a fan heater of mine. I guess I need to explain the latter. I've had a period of joint pain in my hands due to a developing food intolerance (now under control). The fan heater control was a dial, partly flanged for grip. But just a fucking little flange, so as not to stick out too much. Trying to operate that with your digits hurting was a bitch. It would have been literally unusable for someone with strength loss from advanced age and some decent arthritis on top. Interfaces are a very broad category in my view, and we have far too many bad ones. Anyway, sorry for the rant, but don't confuse change with better.