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One thing that is always missing from these discussions is the whole picture. You have to factor the pros and the cons in any situation. This kind of headlines

One thing that is always missing from these discussions is the whole picture. You have to factor the pros and the cons in any situation. This kind of headlines and focus only focuses on the negatives with regards but forget to ask why we have a military, to begin with and what the cost would be if we didn't. A much healthier approach IMO is to look at how we can improve energy production in general as that's at the heart of things here. And once we look at that we will quickly realize that we are already looking at that but finding out it's not as easy to improve the way we currently use energy as people might want it to be. But then again that wouldn't create as many clicks. Somehow that underlying reality is lost on a surprising amount of people. Our relatively wealthy, safe, modern lives with all the bells and whistles and freedoms we in the west take for granted, only is possible because it ultimately sits on top of military dominance that allows us to secure acccess to the proper resources and gives us negotiation power.

ladyattis 7y ago
The thing I take away from these discussions is that the military is covering for a greater failing of our own civilian governments which constantly refuse to do their job in terms of diplomacy. Instead, we just build bigger sticks in place of more cleverly employed carrots as it were. If we were rational actors we'd employ economic measures which would be many times more effective than an atomic bomb. But as I said, that's assuming we were rational actors.
- archgoon 7y ago
  Europe mostly plays the good cop to the United States bad cop; the main problem arises when the US doesn't understand this.
  - ThomPete 7y ago
    Europe plays good cop because the US allows it to by playing the bad cop. The problem is Europe not the US.
    - justaaron 7y ago
      No, once again, I reject the notion that our financial prosperity is in any way linked to the evil protection racket that only protects SOME (evil) businesses as the expense of 1) world peace 2) our limited political capital and limited good will Our so-called allies like Saudi Arabia are as bad as any regime we denounce, and our much vaunted "security umbrella" is a lie. We have more in common with China and Russia than with Switzerland, as such large nations are basically just giant bullies that make-up whatever nice-sounding rationale for any unilateral action they feel like and no one can do anything about it. We are a force for evil in this world, since World War 2. That must be aknowledged, or I shall give you a history lesson.
      - ThomPete 7y ago
        You are welcome to reject it, the reality is that you haven't mentioned which superpower isn't based on their military might. Until then no amount of indignant postering is going to change that fact.
dashundchen 7y ago
> Our relatively wealthy, safe, modern lives with all the bells and whistles and freedoms we in the west take for granted, only is possible because it ultimately sits on top of military dominance that allows us to secure acccess to the proper resources and gives us negotiation power. This belief astounds me. Do you really think your material condition requires the constant death, destruction and turmoil inflicted by the US military around the globe? We should ask the 1 million dead Iraqis and Afghanis what the pros and cons of the past 20 years of American military policy. How about asking the average Libyan, Syrian or Yemini if our actions were worth it for "access to the proper resources"? Or ask your children, who will be saddled with tens of trillions of dollars of debt spent on the military industrial complex for decades to come - money that could have been spent on improving health and welfare domestically for them.
- ThomPete 7y ago
  No but the treath of it does. Name me on other superpower that doesent rely on strong military.
  - _iiu1 7y ago
    Being aggressive and hateful to the entire world at once will tend to requires substantial bodyguard resources, and will eventually fail. Peace based upon respect and respect for hard-won rules and structures is the right road. Switzerland learned this lesson through bloodshed, after a disastrous campaign in which nationals supporting the Duke of Milan got caught in reprisals from his foes, thus beginning the great Swiss tradition of neutrality in foreign conflict. While I won't argue about the relative morality involved in World War 2, I will argue that all ensuing wars the USA has been involved in have ultimately undermined it's prospects for future peace. It seems like many of my fellow Americans need a history lesson vis-a-vis Iran. The USA and UK conspired to overthrow the democratically elected Iranian prime minister Mossadegh, as he threatened to nationalize (their own) oil, which Standard Oil, among others, didn't like very much (Shades of United Fruit and Guatemala anywone?) We then attempted to install the Shah (we knocked down their democracy because it was too lefty, then we put a king back on the throne.) The 1979 revolution was a direct reaction to this, and could have been seen coming from a decade before. This was initially a real revolution, but of course, they purged the lefties and students out and installed a right wing religious government, rather like many Republicans want for America. And we have the nerve to hammer on them for desiring self-actualization... incredible. Hypocrisy is not even the beginning of it...

ladyattis 7y ago

The thing I take away from these discussions is that the military is covering for a greater failing of our own civilian governments which constantly refuse to do their job in terms of diplomacy. Instead, we just build bigger sticks in place of more cleverly employed carrots as it were. If we were rational actors we'd employ economic measures which would be many times more effective than an atomic bomb. But as I said, that's assuming we were rational actors.

archgoon 7y ago
Europe mostly plays the good cop to the United States bad cop; the main problem arises when the US doesn't understand this.
- ThomPete 7y ago
  Europe plays good cop because the US allows it to by playing the bad cop. The problem is Europe not the US.
  - justaaron 7y ago
    No, once again, I reject the notion that our financial prosperity is in any way linked to the evil protection racket that only protects SOME (evil) businesses as the expense of 1) world peace 2) our limited political capital and limited good will Our so-called allies like Saudi Arabia are as bad as any regime we denounce, and our much vaunted "security umbrella" is a lie. We have more in common with China and Russia than with Switzerland, as such large nations are basically just giant bullies that make-up whatever nice-sounding rationale for any unilateral action they feel like and no one can do anything about it. We are a force for evil in this world, since World War 2. That must be aknowledged, or I shall give you a history lesson.
    - ThomPete 7y ago
      You are welcome to reject it, the reality is that you haven't mentioned which superpower isn't based on their military might. Until then no amount of indignant postering is going to change that fact.

dashundchen 7y ago

> Our relatively wealthy, safe, modern lives with all the bells and whistles and freedoms we in the west take for granted, only is possible because it ultimately sits on top of military dominance that allows us to secure acccess to the proper resources and gives us negotiation power. This belief astounds me. Do you really think your material condition requires the constant death, destruction and turmoil inflicted by the US military around the globe? We should ask the 1 million dead Iraqis and Afghanis what the pros and cons of the past 20 years of American military policy. How about asking the average Libyan, Syrian or Yemini if our actions were worth it for "access to the proper resources"? Or ask your children, who will be saddled with tens of trillions of dollars of debt spent on the military industrial complex for decades to come - money that could have been spent on improving health and welfare domestically for them.

ThomPete 7y ago
No but the treath of it does. Name me on other superpower that doesent rely on strong military.
- _iiu1 7y ago
  Being aggressive and hateful to the entire world at once will tend to requires substantial bodyguard resources, and will eventually fail. Peace based upon respect and respect for hard-won rules and structures is the right road. Switzerland learned this lesson through bloodshed, after a disastrous campaign in which nationals supporting the Duke of Milan got caught in reprisals from his foes, thus beginning the great Swiss tradition of neutrality in foreign conflict. While I won't argue about the relative morality involved in World War 2, I will argue that all ensuing wars the USA has been involved in have ultimately undermined it's prospects for future peace. It seems like many of my fellow Americans need a history lesson vis-a-vis Iran. The USA and UK conspired to overthrow the democratically elected Iranian prime minister Mossadegh, as he threatened to nationalize (their own) oil, which Standard Oil, among others, didn't like very much (Shades of United Fruit and Guatemala anywone?) We then attempted to install the Shah (we knocked down their democracy because it was too lefty, then we put a king back on the throne.) The 1979 revolution was a direct reaction to this, and could have been seen coming from a decade before. This was initially a real revolution, but of course, they purged the lefties and students out and installed a right wing religious government, rather like many Republicans want for America. And we have the nerve to hammer on them for desiring self-actualization... incredible. Hypocrisy is not even the beginning of it...