10 ms·

My Mum attended one maths course at university (as a mature age student) with Tao, and I distinctly remember her coming home and complaining about some 'smart-a

by mb_72 7y ago

My Mum attended one maths course at university (as a mature age student) with Tao, and I distinctly remember her coming home and complaining about some 'smart-arse kid who wouldn't stop challenging the lecturer'. I guess it can be tough being very smart and capable and also young at the same time.

matz1 7y ago
Whats the relation of someone complaining and tough in this context ?
- hojjat12000 7y ago
  It's tough to be smart, young, and capable. Because people will call you smart arse and not like you.
  - matz1 7y ago
    If you are smart then you are smart enough to ignore that.
    - munificent 7y ago
      If this were true, many many smart people would have much less anxiety and self-doubt.
      - waterhouse 7y ago
        A lesson which many highly intelligent persons never learn as long as they live is that human beings in general are incorrigibly very different from themselves in thought, action, and desire. Many a reformer has died at the hands of a mob which he was trying to improve. The highly intelligent child must learn to suffer fools gladly--not sneeringly, not angrily, not despairingly, not weepingly--but gladly, if personal development is to proceed successfully in the world as it is. Failure to learn how to tolerate in a reasonable fashion the foolishness of others less gifted leads to bitterness, disillusionment, and misanthropy, which are the ruin of potential leaders. As a form of failure to suffer fools gladly, negativism may develop. The foolish teacher who hates to be corrected by a child is unsuited to these children. Too many children of IQ 170 are being taught by teachers of IQ 120. Into this important matter of the selection of the teacher we cannot enter, except to illustrate the difficulty from recent conversation with a ten-year-old boy of IQ 165. This boy was referred to us as a school problem: "Not interested in the school work. Very impudent. A liar." The following is a fragment of conversation with this boy: What seems to be your *main* problem in school? Several of them. Name *one*. Well, I will name the teachers. Oh, boy! It is bad enough when the *pupils* make mistakes, but when the *teachers* make mistakes, oh, boy! Mention a few mistakes the teachers made. For instance I was sitting in 5A and the teacher was teaching 5B. She was telling those children that the Germans discovered printing, that Gutenberg was the first discoverer of it, mind you. After a few minutes I couldn't stand it. I am not supposed to recite in that class, you see, but I got up. I said, "No; the Chinese *invented*, not discovered, printing, before the time of Gutenberg--while the Germans were still barbarians." Then the teacher said, "Sit down. You are entirely too fresh." Later on she gave me a raking-over before the whole class. Oh, boy! What teaching! It seemed to me that one should begin at once in this case the lesson about suffering fools gladly. So I said, "Ned, that teacher is foolish, but one of the very first things to learn in the world is to suffer fools gladly. The child was so filled with resentment that he heard only the word "suffer." "Yes, that's it. That's what I say! Make 'em suffer. Roll a rock on 'em." I quote this to suggest how negativistic rebels may seize on the wrong idea. Before we finished the conversation Ned was straightened out on the subject of who was to do the suffering. He agreed to do it himself. I will cite another conversation, this time with a nine-year-old, of IQ 183. What seems to be the *main* trouble with you at school? The teacher can't pronounce. Can't pronounce *what*? Oh, lots of things. The teacher said "Magdalen College"--at Oxford, you know. I said, "In England they call it Môdlin College." The teacher wrote a note home to say I am rude and disorderly. She does not like me. -- Leta Hollingworth, "Children Above 180 IQ Stanford-Binet"
        munchbunny 7y ago
        "To suffer fools gladly" is an interesting way to put it, but it crystalizes what I've observed about the missing piece of understanding in how "smart-ass" children behave. It's hard to blame the kid for not knowing how to maturely handle actually being right when the adult/teacher is wrong and being punished for it, because we expect the process of growing up to teach that. But when does the kid actually get taught that? By the time they're in middle school (I have one specific kid in mind who I observed as a math coach), everyone else just hates them for being that annoying kid nobody likes.
        defen 7y ago
        This serves as a pretty good example of why "smart" kids (or adults) can be annoying. Useless pedantry is not an enjoyable thing for most people. Yes, the Chinese had printing, but it was done by hand. Movable type (which, yes the Chinese also had) plus the mechanical press (which they did not) is what allowed printed material to flourish and change the course of history. It's like saying "James Watt invented the steam engine" and the kid in the back chiming in with "Well actually, the Romans had an Aeolipile". Sure, they did, and no one cares.
        apricot 7y ago
        The real problem is that the teachers ought to know what you just said, but they don't. So instead of teaching the smart kid -- and the rest of the class -- about the advantages of the mechanical press, they call him a smart-ass.
        matz1 7y ago
        Well, at least the kid in the back cares and maybe someone else too. If you disagree with that kid you can always refute back. You can say its annoying but the it maybe also annoying to the kids in the back for you to make inaccurate statement (at least according to the kid perspective).
    - PhasmaFelis 7y ago
      There is little to no correlation between intelligence and social resilience.
- goodJobWalrus 7y ago
  It's tough, because you are a pain in the ass, and not even realize it? (especially if coupled by arrogance).
  - matz1 7y ago
    You don't have to please anyone, regardless what you do there are always going to be someone somewhere who think you are pain in the ass. If I'm smart and capable and someone find me pain in the ass, then well too bad, thats your problem.
    - bambataa 7y ago
      If you're smart and capable then you should also have sufficient social skills for people not to think you're a pain in the ass.
      - matz1 7y ago
        Regardless how much social skill you have, there are going to people who think you are pain in the ass. If they think I'm in pain in the ass they are the one who has problem.
        PhasmaFelis 7y ago
        There'll always be someone who doesn't like you, but you can minimize that number by your own actions. If everyone dislikes you, then they'll make it your problem. You can gripe about it, or you can try to change what you can.
        matz1 7y ago
        >but you can minimize that number by your own actions you can but you don't necessarily have to. >If everyone dislikes you, then they'll make it your problem its unlikely that everyone hates me, even hitler has people who like him or I don't gripe in the first place and then still depends on what they actually do.
bobthepanda 7y ago
Without more context in social situations (I wouldn’t assume a large college lecture to have much context on fellow students), it can be hard to determine whether or not someone is actually a genius or is suffering from Dunning-Kruger.

by mb_72 7y ago

matz1 7y ago

Whats the relation of someone complaining and tough in this context ?

hojjat12000 7y ago
It's tough to be smart, young, and capable. Because people will call you smart arse and not like you.
- matz1 7y ago
  If you are smart then you are smart enough to ignore that.
  - munificent 7y ago
    If this were true, many many smart people would have much less anxiety and self-doubt.
    - waterhouse 7y ago
      A lesson which many highly intelligent persons never learn as long as they live is that human beings in general are incorrigibly very different from themselves in thought, action, and desire. Many a reformer has died at the hands of a mob which he was trying to improve. The highly intelligent child must learn to suffer fools gladly--not sneeringly, not angrily, not despairingly, not weepingly--but gladly, if personal development is to proceed successfully in the world as it is. Failure to learn how to tolerate in a reasonable fashion the foolishness of others less gifted leads to bitterness, disillusionment, and misanthropy, which are the ruin of potential leaders. As a form of failure to suffer fools gladly, negativism may develop. The foolish teacher who hates to be corrected by a child is unsuited to these children. Too many children of IQ 170 are being taught by teachers of IQ 120. Into this important matter of the selection of the teacher we cannot enter, except to illustrate the difficulty from recent conversation with a ten-year-old boy of IQ 165. This boy was referred to us as a school problem: "Not interested in the school work. Very impudent. A liar." The following is a fragment of conversation with this boy: What seems to be your *main* problem in school? Several of them. Name *one*. Well, I will name the teachers. Oh, boy! It is bad enough when the *pupils* make mistakes, but when the *teachers* make mistakes, oh, boy! Mention a few mistakes the teachers made. For instance I was sitting in 5A and the teacher was teaching 5B. She was telling those children that the Germans discovered printing, that Gutenberg was the first discoverer of it, mind you. After a few minutes I couldn't stand it. I am not supposed to recite in that class, you see, but I got up. I said, "No; the Chinese *invented*, not discovered, printing, before the time of Gutenberg--while the Germans were still barbarians." Then the teacher said, "Sit down. You are entirely too fresh." Later on she gave me a raking-over before the whole class. Oh, boy! What teaching! It seemed to me that one should begin at once in this case the lesson about suffering fools gladly. So I said, "Ned, that teacher is foolish, but one of the very first things to learn in the world is to suffer fools gladly. The child was so filled with resentment that he heard only the word "suffer." "Yes, that's it. That's what I say! Make 'em suffer. Roll a rock on 'em." I quote this to suggest how negativistic rebels may seize on the wrong idea. Before we finished the conversation Ned was straightened out on the subject of who was to do the suffering. He agreed to do it himself. I will cite another conversation, this time with a nine-year-old, of IQ 183. What seems to be the *main* trouble with you at school? The teacher can't pronounce. Can't pronounce *what*? Oh, lots of things. The teacher said "Magdalen College"--at Oxford, you know. I said, "In England they call it Môdlin College." The teacher wrote a note home to say I am rude and disorderly. She does not like me. -- Leta Hollingworth, "Children Above 180 IQ Stanford-Binet"
      - munchbunny 7y ago
        "To suffer fools gladly" is an interesting way to put it, but it crystalizes what I've observed about the missing piece of understanding in how "smart-ass" children behave. It's hard to blame the kid for not knowing how to maturely handle actually being right when the adult/teacher is wrong and being punished for it, because we expect the process of growing up to teach that. But when does the kid actually get taught that? By the time they're in middle school (I have one specific kid in mind who I observed as a math coach), everyone else just hates them for being that annoying kid nobody likes.
      - defen 7y ago
        This serves as a pretty good example of why "smart" kids (or adults) can be annoying. Useless pedantry is not an enjoyable thing for most people. Yes, the Chinese had printing, but it was done by hand. Movable type (which, yes the Chinese also had) plus the mechanical press (which they did not) is what allowed printed material to flourish and change the course of history. It's like saying "James Watt invented the steam engine" and the kid in the back chiming in with "Well actually, the Romans had an Aeolipile". Sure, they did, and no one cares.
        apricot 7y ago
        The real problem is that the teachers ought to know what you just said, but they don't. So instead of teaching the smart kid -- and the rest of the class -- about the advantages of the mechanical press, they call him a smart-ass.
        matz1 7y ago
        Well, at least the kid in the back cares and maybe someone else too. If you disagree with that kid you can always refute back. You can say its annoying but the it maybe also annoying to the kids in the back for you to make inaccurate statement (at least according to the kid perspective).
  - PhasmaFelis 7y ago
    There is little to no correlation between intelligence and social resilience.
goodJobWalrus 7y ago
It's tough, because you are a pain in the ass, and not even realize it? (especially if coupled by arrogance).
- matz1 7y ago
  You don't have to please anyone, regardless what you do there are always going to be someone somewhere who think you are pain in the ass. If I'm smart and capable and someone find me pain in the ass, then well too bad, thats your problem.
  - bambataa 7y ago
    If you're smart and capable then you should also have sufficient social skills for people not to think you're a pain in the ass.
    - matz1 7y ago
      Regardless how much social skill you have, there are going to people who think you are pain in the ass. If they think I'm in pain in the ass they are the one who has problem.
      - PhasmaFelis 7y ago
        There'll always be someone who doesn't like you, but you can minimize that number by your own actions. If everyone dislikes you, then they'll make it your problem. You can gripe about it, or you can try to change what you can.
        matz1 7y ago
        >but you can minimize that number by your own actions you can but you don't necessarily have to. >If everyone dislikes you, then they'll make it your problem its unlikely that everyone hates me, even hitler has people who like him or I don't gripe in the first place and then still depends on what they actually do.

bobthepanda 7y ago

Without more context in social situations (I wouldn’t assume a large college lecture to have much context on fellow students), it can be hard to determine whether or not someone is actually a genius or is suffering from Dunning-Kruger.