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Not sure what you mean. The situation defacto is that china and the chinese has free access to our markets while we don't have free access to theirs. The situ

Not sure what you mean. The situation defacto is that china and the chinese has free access to our markets while we don't have free access to theirs. The situation is that defacto china is benefitting from their developing nation status outcompeting western companies just on shipping prices. Very few US products enter the chinese market plus those who do are forced to give over their IP.

DiogenesKynikos 7y ago
American companies have access to the Chinese market. If you go to any major Chinese city, that will be obvious to you pretty quickly. American brands are everywhere. US companies do very well for themselves in the Chinese market. The reason for the trade imbalance is not Chinese protectionism, but rather structural issues in the United States and the Dollar's role as global reserve currency.
- LMYahooTFY 7y ago
  > American brands are everywhere. Some American brands are everywhere.... Obviously some have been heavily restricted, most prominently internet media companies.
  - DiogenesKynikos 7y ago
    A lot of American brands are in China. The restrictions are about censorship of information, so they affect Google, Facebook and newspapers. You can still buy Starbucks, Levi jeans, iPhones, Ford automobiles and KFC buckets.
    - ThomPete 7y ago
      I.e the big companies yes those who also have much of their production done in China. Thats not the same as China being open to western companies like the west is to china. And again no IP protection with countless cases of ip theft and forced technology transfer by the mafia run chinese goverment. To claim that the structural problems are US is absurd.
      - DiogenesKynikos 7y ago
        > To claim that the structural problems are US is absurd. The US has a trade deficit with almost all of its trading partners. That is a structural issue. > no IP protection That's a crude caricature. There is IP protection in China. If that weren't the case, American microchip designers would not be making such large licensing fees in China. As far as I understand it, as a non-expert, IP protection in China is actually fairly good for a developing country. > Thats not the same as China being open to western companies like the west is to china. Western brands have much greater penetration in the Chinese market than vice versa. Moreover, much of the American trade deficit with China is actually made up of Western companies doing production in China.
        ThomPete 7y ago
        >The US has a trade deficit with almost all of its trading partners. That is a structural issue. But has nothing to do with what we are talking about here. It's not a crude caricature. IP protection in china is non existing which anyone who even done a little business in china knows very well. It's litterally one of the biggest criticisms so I am not sure where you are getting your information from, none the less it's incorrect. Chinese don't need their brands to western markets they just need to produce for our markets. The difference is that the west doesn't hinder chinese companies to compete on our markets, china does hinder us competing on theirs.
        DiogenesKynikos 7y ago
        > IP protection in china is non existing which anyone who even done a little business in china knows very well. Rather than going back and forth with "Yes it is," "No it isn't," I'll provide some hard facts here. China has been ramping up IP enforcement over the past five years or so. In 2014, China began establishing specialized IP courts in major cities, and over time, more and more have been created. These courts have been hearing a rapidly expanding number of cases. The number of IP disputes heard in Chinese courts has increased by 30-40% every year for the past few years. Last year, Chinese courts heard nearly 300,000 IP disputes. 10% of patent cases in China are brought by foreign companies, and they win 70% of cases. There have been problems with the Chinese court system when it comes to IP. The penalties for IP infringement have historically been low, but they have been increasing. Evidence discovery has been difficult, but new procedures have been introduced to enable it. Foreign companies have felt that local companies are favored, but the central government has been pushing for stronger enforcement of foreign companies' rights, and the statistics show that foreign companies are now as successful as Chinese companies in their cases. In light of all this, I think it's fair to say that the picture you're painting is crude. China is actually becoming one of the most active venues for IP litigation in the world, going just by the sheer volume of cases they handle now. 1. https://www.limegreenipnews.com/2018/09/china-ip-litigation-and-prosecution-statistics-taking-a-step-back-to-see-the-bigger-picture/ https://www.limegreenipnews.com/2018/09/china-ip-litigation-... 2. https://thediplomat.com/2018/01/chinas-progress-on-intellectual-property-rights-yes-really/ https://thediplomat.com/2018/01/chinas-progress-on-intellect... 3. https://www.ipwatchdog.com/2018/05/07/rapid-changes-chinese-legal-system-attractive-venue-ip-litigation/id=96099/ https://www.ipwatchdog.com/2018/05/07/rapid-changes-chinese-... 4. https://www.scmp.com/news/china/politics/article/3001407/jump-number-intellectual-property-cases-handled-chinas-courts https://www.scmp.com/news/china/politics/article/3001407/jum...
  - pinkfoot 7y ago
    China Mobile would also point out how heavily restricted Chinese telco brands are in the USA.
- ThomPete 7y ago
  Sorry but this is simply wrong. Europe is well aware of this problem too and there is support for Trumps war with china far into the EU. China doesn't protect IP exactly because of the way they operate. Why do you think they don't want to enforce IP rights in China?
  - DiogenesKynikos 7y ago
    What, precisely, is wrong? It is simply a fact that American brands are omnipresent in China. It's a very striking thing if you go to any big Chinese city - how many Western restaurants, hotels, clothing brands, automobile brands and technology brands are everywhere. The idea that China doesn't protect IP is a cliché one hears in the West, but it's not accurate. Developing countries generally have much weaker IP enforcement than developed countries. But as far as developing countries go, my understanding is that China actually has pretty strong IP enforcement now. There have been massive changes to the Chinese legal and regulatory system as part of its entry into the WTO, but a country that had a GDP/capita of just hundreds of dollars a generation ago is not going to become Western Europe overnight.
    - ThomPete 7y ago
      You are missing the point here. Big brands are part of the problem here, they are the ones who got acces to chinese markets by offering jobs. We are talking about normal companies not just big brands that get things produced in china. I would urge you to study the subject a little more, you will be surprised how much of what you think is simply wrong.
      - DiogenesKynikos 7y ago
        Be concrete about what you're claiming. You've granted that big American brands have access to the Chinese market (and I'd add that their sales there are very significant and have been increasing rapidly as Chinese consumer spending has grown). Now you're claiming that somehow, "normal" American companies are being blocked from the Chinese market. What are these "normal" American companies? How, precisely, is China blocking them from doing business?

DiogenesKynikos 7y ago

American companies have access to the Chinese market. If you go to any major Chinese city, that will be obvious to you pretty quickly. American brands are everywhere. US companies do very well for themselves in the Chinese market. The reason for the trade imbalance is not Chinese protectionism, but rather structural issues in the United States and the Dollar's role as global reserve currency.

LMYahooTFY 7y ago
> American brands are everywhere. Some American brands are everywhere.... Obviously some have been heavily restricted, most prominently internet media companies.
- DiogenesKynikos 7y ago
  A lot of American brands are in China. The restrictions are about censorship of information, so they affect Google, Facebook and newspapers. You can still buy Starbucks, Levi jeans, iPhones, Ford automobiles and KFC buckets.
  - ThomPete 7y ago
    I.e the big companies yes those who also have much of their production done in China. Thats not the same as China being open to western companies like the west is to china. And again no IP protection with countless cases of ip theft and forced technology transfer by the mafia run chinese goverment. To claim that the structural problems are US is absurd.
    - DiogenesKynikos 7y ago
      > To claim that the structural problems are US is absurd. The US has a trade deficit with almost all of its trading partners. That is a structural issue. > no IP protection That's a crude caricature. There is IP protection in China. If that weren't the case, American microchip designers would not be making such large licensing fees in China. As far as I understand it, as a non-expert, IP protection in China is actually fairly good for a developing country. > Thats not the same as China being open to western companies like the west is to china. Western brands have much greater penetration in the Chinese market than vice versa. Moreover, much of the American trade deficit with China is actually made up of Western companies doing production in China.
      - ThomPete 7y ago
        >The US has a trade deficit with almost all of its trading partners. That is a structural issue. But has nothing to do with what we are talking about here. It's not a crude caricature. IP protection in china is non existing which anyone who even done a little business in china knows very well. It's litterally one of the biggest criticisms so I am not sure where you are getting your information from, none the less it's incorrect. Chinese don't need their brands to western markets they just need to produce for our markets. The difference is that the west doesn't hinder chinese companies to compete on our markets, china does hinder us competing on theirs.
        DiogenesKynikos 7y ago
        > IP protection in china is non existing which anyone who even done a little business in china knows very well. Rather than going back and forth with "Yes it is," "No it isn't," I'll provide some hard facts here. China has been ramping up IP enforcement over the past five years or so. In 2014, China began establishing specialized IP courts in major cities, and over time, more and more have been created. These courts have been hearing a rapidly expanding number of cases. The number of IP disputes heard in Chinese courts has increased by 30-40% every year for the past few years. Last year, Chinese courts heard nearly 300,000 IP disputes. 10% of patent cases in China are brought by foreign companies, and they win 70% of cases. There have been problems with the Chinese court system when it comes to IP. The penalties for IP infringement have historically been low, but they have been increasing. Evidence discovery has been difficult, but new procedures have been introduced to enable it. Foreign companies have felt that local companies are favored, but the central government has been pushing for stronger enforcement of foreign companies' rights, and the statistics show that foreign companies are now as successful as Chinese companies in their cases. In light of all this, I think it's fair to say that the picture you're painting is crude. China is actually becoming one of the most active venues for IP litigation in the world, going just by the sheer volume of cases they handle now. 1. https://www.limegreenipnews.com/2018/09/china-ip-litigation-and-prosecution-statistics-taking-a-step-back-to-see-the-bigger-picture/ https://www.limegreenipnews.com/2018/09/china-ip-litigation-... 2. https://thediplomat.com/2018/01/chinas-progress-on-intellectual-property-rights-yes-really/ https://thediplomat.com/2018/01/chinas-progress-on-intellect... 3. https://www.ipwatchdog.com/2018/05/07/rapid-changes-chinese-legal-system-attractive-venue-ip-litigation/id=96099/ https://www.ipwatchdog.com/2018/05/07/rapid-changes-chinese-... 4. https://www.scmp.com/news/china/politics/article/3001407/jump-number-intellectual-property-cases-handled-chinas-courts https://www.scmp.com/news/china/politics/article/3001407/jum...
- pinkfoot 7y ago
  China Mobile would also point out how heavily restricted Chinese telco brands are in the USA.
ThomPete 7y ago
Sorry but this is simply wrong. Europe is well aware of this problem too and there is support for Trumps war with china far into the EU. China doesn't protect IP exactly because of the way they operate. Why do you think they don't want to enforce IP rights in China?
- DiogenesKynikos 7y ago
  What, precisely, is wrong? It is simply a fact that American brands are omnipresent in China. It's a very striking thing if you go to any big Chinese city - how many Western restaurants, hotels, clothing brands, automobile brands and technology brands are everywhere. The idea that China doesn't protect IP is a cliché one hears in the West, but it's not accurate. Developing countries generally have much weaker IP enforcement than developed countries. But as far as developing countries go, my understanding is that China actually has pretty strong IP enforcement now. There have been massive changes to the Chinese legal and regulatory system as part of its entry into the WTO, but a country that had a GDP/capita of just hundreds of dollars a generation ago is not going to become Western Europe overnight.
  - ThomPete 7y ago
    You are missing the point here. Big brands are part of the problem here, they are the ones who got acces to chinese markets by offering jobs. We are talking about normal companies not just big brands that get things produced in china. I would urge you to study the subject a little more, you will be surprised how much of what you think is simply wrong.
    - DiogenesKynikos 7y ago
      Be concrete about what you're claiming. You've granted that big American brands have access to the Chinese market (and I'd add that their sales there are very significant and have been increasing rapidly as Chinese consumer spending has grown). Now you're claiming that somehow, "normal" American companies are being blocked from the Chinese market. What are these "normal" American companies? How, precisely, is China blocking them from doing business?