4 ms·

So, racism now doesn't mean race ? Or does race includes nationality in your definition ?

by bsaul 7y ago

izacus 7y ago
What's the practical difference? You're being punished due to a place you've been born in. Not something you did wrong. Just a luck of nature. And that's wrong. By any moral standard.
- enedil 7y ago
  If you're in a place where being woman is disadvantageous, would you call such disadvantage "racist"? Clearly it fits your description. If you think it's wrong, then I agree with you. If you think it's racist, then no way, it isn't and you just don't know the words you use.
  - izacus 7y ago
    Is that the most useful direction you could take this debate? Will changing the word for the same thing change anything? Racist, sexist, nationalist, whatever, people are having their livelihoods broken and you want to debate grammar?
    - blodstone 7y ago
      It is not grammar issue but vocabulary. Having the right word is important if you want to be taken seriously. As you have pointed, these issues are serious, and the least thing people want to hear is to be accused for something that they didn't do. You don't call a thief a rapist even though both of them broke the law.
- bsaul 7y ago
  You’re just using a broader abstraction to define the original problem. This usually doesn’t help solving or understanding problems in general (you end up with general statement as « it’s wrong », which frankly doesn’t lead to anything). As an example, it would be interesting to know if relocating to some other country, or give up your nationality solves the issue. In the case of racism, it wouldn’t for sure. In this case, i don’t know.
DanBC 7y ago
Race includes nationality in any useful definition of racism, and has done for many many years. From 2010, written into UK law: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/9 https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/9 > 9 Race > (1)Race includes— > (a)colour; > (b)nationality; > (c)ethnic or national origins. From 1976 (over 40 year ago), written into the previous UK law: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1976/74/enacted https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1976/74/enacted > 1 Racial discrimination [...] > (ii) which he cannot show to be justifiable irrespective of the colour, race, nationality or ethnic or national origins of the person to whom it is applied ; and
- skissane 7y ago
  See also Article 1 of the International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination: > In this Convention, the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life. Both "descent" and "national or ethnic origin" appear relevant here. https://www.refworld.org/pdfid/3ae6b3940.pdf https://www.refworld.org/pdfid/3ae6b3940.pdf
alehul 7y ago
In the top-level comment, the issue was presumably Iranian citizenship (not descent), or, in other words, nationality.
DomreiRoam 7y ago
By definition it is more xenophobia than racism according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenophobia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenophobia .
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]

So, racism now doesn't mean race ? Or does race includes nationality in your definition ?

by bsaul 7y ago

So, racism now doesn't mean race ? Or does race includes nationality in your definition ?

What's the practical difference? You're being punished due to a place you've been born in. Not something you did wrong. Just a luck of nature. And that's wrong. By any moral standard.

enedil 7y ago
If you're in a place where being woman is disadvantageous, would you call such disadvantage "racist"? Clearly it fits your description. If you think it's wrong, then I agree with you. If you think it's racist, then no way, it isn't and you just don't know the words you use.
- izacus 7y ago
  Is that the most useful direction you could take this debate? Will changing the word for the same thing change anything? Racist, sexist, nationalist, whatever, people are having their livelihoods broken and you want to debate grammar?
  - blodstone 7y ago
    It is not grammar issue but vocabulary. Having the right word is important if you want to be taken seriously. As you have pointed, these issues are serious, and the least thing people want to hear is to be accused for something that they didn't do. You don't call a thief a rapist even though both of them broke the law.
bsaul 7y ago
You’re just using a broader abstraction to define the original problem. This usually doesn’t help solving or understanding problems in general (you end up with general statement as « it’s wrong », which frankly doesn’t lead to anything). As an example, it would be interesting to know if relocating to some other country, or give up your nationality solves the issue. In the case of racism, it wouldn’t for sure. In this case, i don’t know.

DanBC 7y ago

Race includes nationality in any useful definition of racism, and has done for many many years. From 2010, written into UK law: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/9 https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/9 > 9 Race > (1)Race includes— > (a)colour; > (b)nationality; > (c)ethnic or national origins. From 1976 (over 40 year ago), written into the previous UK law: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1976/74/enacted https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1976/74/enacted > 1 Racial discrimination [...] > (ii) which he cannot show to be justifiable irrespective of the colour, race, nationality or ethnic or national origins of the person to whom it is applied ; and

skissane 7y ago
See also Article 1 of the International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination: > In this Convention, the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life. Both "descent" and "national or ethnic origin" appear relevant here. https://www.refworld.org/pdfid/3ae6b3940.pdf https://www.refworld.org/pdfid/3ae6b3940.pdf

alehul 7y ago

In the top-level comment, the issue was presumably Iranian citizenship (not descent), or, in other words, nationality.

DomreiRoam 7y ago

By definition it is more xenophobia than racism according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenophobia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenophobia .

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]