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> This business of emotional development and learning self-control is too important to leave to classrooms. It’s also not really any of the schools business. Y

> This business of emotional development and learning self-control is too important to leave to classrooms. It’s also not really any of the schools business. You can’t fix delinquent parenting in the classroom. The idea of an emotional development curriculum sounds terrifyingly dystopian to me.

rsj_hn 7y ago
terms like "delinquent parenting" are a bit incendiary, and of course part of the job of a school is socialization. But I think a lot of changes have happened in how kids are raised that don't promote good childhood development. Specifically, unsupervised play with other kids. It just disappeared. Now parents have to supervise everything, which puts incredible pressure on parents, especially if they are working. In previous generations of our own society and other more traditional societies today, parents had kids younger and there were grandparents and relatives around to help raise them. At the same time, you can open your door and let the kids run out and play in the street. Then ring a bell when it's time for lunch and they come home. That takes huge pressure off parents and lets kids learn some tough lessons that helps them mature. In every species, play is how the young prepare for adulthood. Play and spending time with older peers. When you take that away and allow only supervised play time -- well, that's too much pressure on parents; they'd have to be superhuman to give their children the same richness of experience in childhood that kids used to have. I think the consequences of this are huge. For example, I've noticed how even people in their late 20s and early 30s, when they run into some kind of difficulty, immediately call for an authority figure to complain to. You'd learn not to do that if you were engaging in a lot of unsupervised play. But if everything is supervised, then you always have that authority figure to call. Even universities now are acting 'in loco parentis' -- in a very paternalistic manner, and it seems the students demand it. To me, it's as if a part of growing up and taking care of your own problems is missing. Then they go out into the working world and expect 'in loco parentis' from their employer. Well, the employer is happy to help, but now you are in an unhealthy relationship with your job. Then you have people in their 30s saying "God, I wished someone had told me about emotional maturity" -- well, that's really sad.
- AmericanChopper 7y ago
  > terms like "delinquent parenting" are a bit incendiary Delinquent means to fail in ones duty. If you think parents are failing in their duty to facilitate their children’s emotional development, then it’s just tautological to say they are delinquent. I pretty much agree with everything else you said. But I disagree with the conclusion that it’s the governments right to take over parenting responsibilities in the absence of abuse, and I strongly disagree with the conclusion that the school is an appropriate place to instruct the emotional development of children. The idea of a standardized emotional development curriculum should terrify anybody.
  - rsj_hn 7y ago
    I never concluded that it was the government's right to take over parenting responsibilities. I explicitly made the point that when institutions act 'in loco parentis', the results are harmful for development -- that includes government. But I don't think blaming parents is the answer -- this is the result of general social breakdown, and parents today are doing the best they can in an environment where a lot of supporting infrastructure has been taken away from them.
    - AmericanChopper 7y ago
      > But I don't think blaming parents is the answer Blame is an entirely different conversation to delinquency. If I get hit by a car, lose my job, and can’t pay my rent, I’d become delinquent in paying my rent. You could debate who’s to blame for that, but it has no bearing on whether I’m delinquent or not. > I never concluded that it was the government's right to take over parenting responsibilities. The comment I was originally replying to did. Your initial response, which I mostly agree with, didn’t address that topic at all.
eeZah7Ux 7y ago
It's dystopian to confuse an "emotional development curriculum" with indoctrination and brainwashing.

rsj_hn 7y ago

terms like "delinquent parenting" are a bit incendiary, and of course part of the job of a school is socialization. But I think a lot of changes have happened in how kids are raised that don't promote good childhood development. Specifically, unsupervised play with other kids. It just disappeared. Now parents have to supervise everything, which puts incredible pressure on parents, especially if they are working. In previous generations of our own society and other more traditional societies today, parents had kids younger and there were grandparents and relatives around to help raise them. At the same time, you can open your door and let the kids run out and play in the street. Then ring a bell when it's time for lunch and they come home. That takes huge pressure off parents and lets kids learn some tough lessons that helps them mature. In every species, play is how the young prepare for adulthood. Play and spending time with older peers. When you take that away and allow only supervised play time -- well, that's too much pressure on parents; they'd have to be superhuman to give their children the same richness of experience in childhood that kids used to have. I think the consequences of this are huge. For example, I've noticed how even people in their late 20s and early 30s, when they run into some kind of difficulty, immediately call for an authority figure to complain to. You'd learn not to do that if you were engaging in a lot of unsupervised play. But if everything is supervised, then you always have that authority figure to call. Even universities now are acting 'in loco parentis' -- in a very paternalistic manner, and it seems the students demand it. To me, it's as if a part of growing up and taking care of your own problems is missing. Then they go out into the working world and expect 'in loco parentis' from their employer. Well, the employer is happy to help, but now you are in an unhealthy relationship with your job. Then you have people in their 30s saying "God, I wished someone had told me about emotional maturity" -- well, that's really sad.

AmericanChopper 7y ago
> terms like "delinquent parenting" are a bit incendiary Delinquent means to fail in ones duty. If you think parents are failing in their duty to facilitate their children’s emotional development, then it’s just tautological to say they are delinquent. I pretty much agree with everything else you said. But I disagree with the conclusion that it’s the governments right to take over parenting responsibilities in the absence of abuse, and I strongly disagree with the conclusion that the school is an appropriate place to instruct the emotional development of children. The idea of a standardized emotional development curriculum should terrify anybody.
- rsj_hn 7y ago
  I never concluded that it was the government's right to take over parenting responsibilities. I explicitly made the point that when institutions act 'in loco parentis', the results are harmful for development -- that includes government. But I don't think blaming parents is the answer -- this is the result of general social breakdown, and parents today are doing the best they can in an environment where a lot of supporting infrastructure has been taken away from them.
  - AmericanChopper 7y ago
    > But I don't think blaming parents is the answer Blame is an entirely different conversation to delinquency. If I get hit by a car, lose my job, and can’t pay my rent, I’d become delinquent in paying my rent. You could debate who’s to blame for that, but it has no bearing on whether I’m delinquent or not. > I never concluded that it was the government's right to take over parenting responsibilities. The comment I was originally replying to did. Your initial response, which I mostly agree with, didn’t address that topic at all.

eeZah7Ux 7y ago

It's dystopian to confuse an "emotional development curriculum" with indoctrination and brainwashing.