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More generally, it is shockingly easy to frame an issue with disinformation to misguide the general public. The only solution to this is better education that

by omeid2 7y ago

More generally, it is shockingly easy to frame an issue with disinformation to misguide the general public. The only solution to this is better education that teaches critical thinking rather than mechanical parroting-exams based system that is widespread today in majority of the world.

d-sc 7y ago
It’s not even that. I’ve seen plenty of people who are very good at critical thinking have views that to me seem nonsensical.
- enriquto 7y ago
  really? I thought that intelligent people always agree on everything!
- omeid2 7y ago
  Cognitive Dissonance is a real thing. I think those nonsensical views are largely possible to hold because they're commonly held and not that they have any merit. Unfortunately we are extremely susceptible to conformity and social proof. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2F_7B_-FI4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2F_7B_-FI4
- homonculus1 7y ago
  Is it off-topic of me to ask for examples out of pure curiosity?
- sampleinajar 7y ago
  Fair enough. Critical thinking is a way to think about a problem that does not guarantee similar conclusions, nor does it imply that it can used effectively for all problems.
RomanBob 7y ago
>The only solution to this is better education that teaches critical thinking The underlying assumption here is that everybody is capable of anything if only they were given the right 'education'.
- nothrabannosir 7y ago
  Or, more charitably: "everybody is capable of improving anything if only they were given more education than they are now."
  - fuzz4lyfe 7y ago
    "everybody is capable of improving anything if only they were given more education than they are now and cared enough to study" Is probably more accurate. You can bring a horse to water but you can't make them drink. It's impossible to know but it may be that those who are willing to be educated already have been and those who are left are willfully ignorant or have low enough intelligence that education isn't possible. As society becomes more complex, greater and greater numbers of people will be unable to successfully interact with it. What we do with them is a unsolved problem.
- omeid2 7y ago
  "Everyone is capable of anything" is a bit of a stretch, but as general rule critical thinking is not improbable for majority of the people. That is, I believe with better education we can have a substantially larger number of people who are capable of critical thinking and can navigate through trickery and misinformation at a basic level.
  - wutbrodo 7y ago
    Even under assumptions of universal inherent capability, the dirty truth is that we simply don't know how to reliably teach critical thinking en masse. That's nominally what college is for, but the universalization of college admissions has exposed the fact that the difference between a degreed and non-degreed worker had more to do with the input population to colleges than any direct effect of a college education. This is an unsolved problem, and a really important one in the modern cognitive economy, which is why theories about inherent cognitive capability have gained so much purchase recently. For my part, I think these theories are plausible, but also think that their implications are significant enough that I don't want to be too hasty and buy into them until I've been convinced that we've exhausted the possibility that thinking can be taught.
dsfyu404ed 7y ago
>The only solution to this is better education that teaches critical thinking rather than mechanical parroting-exams based system that is widespread today in majority of the world. As long as... a) The politicians find it easier to manipulate dumb voters and realize that voters with good critical thinking skills are more capable of calling out their BS. and b) The bureaucrats deciding what gets taught in public school are ultimately accountable to people appointed by and accountable to politicians and c) Most of the voting public gets a public school education. ...we will never have a general public with good critical thinking skills. Now, before anyone puts words in my mouth, no there isn't some grand conspiracy to keep the proles stupid, it just so happens that there's a disincentive to making them smart and making them smart takes resources so obviously there's no will to get it done. You'd be surprised how much good stuff the government doesn't do is attributable to this incentive structure.

by omeid2 7y ago

d-sc 7y ago

It’s not even that. I’ve seen plenty of people who are very good at critical thinking have views that to me seem nonsensical.

enriquto 7y ago
really? I thought that intelligent people always agree on everything!
omeid2 7y ago
Cognitive Dissonance is a real thing. I think those nonsensical views are largely possible to hold because they're commonly held and not that they have any merit. Unfortunately we are extremely susceptible to conformity and social proof. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2F_7B_-FI4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2F_7B_-FI4
homonculus1 7y ago
Is it off-topic of me to ask for examples out of pure curiosity?
sampleinajar 7y ago
Fair enough. Critical thinking is a way to think about a problem that does not guarantee similar conclusions, nor does it imply that it can used effectively for all problems.

RomanBob 7y ago

>The only solution to this is better education that teaches critical thinking The underlying assumption here is that everybody is capable of anything if only they were given the right 'education'.

nothrabannosir 7y ago
Or, more charitably: "everybody is capable of improving anything if only they were given more education than they are now."
- fuzz4lyfe 7y ago
  "everybody is capable of improving anything if only they were given more education than they are now and cared enough to study" Is probably more accurate. You can bring a horse to water but you can't make them drink. It's impossible to know but it may be that those who are willing to be educated already have been and those who are left are willfully ignorant or have low enough intelligence that education isn't possible. As society becomes more complex, greater and greater numbers of people will be unable to successfully interact with it. What we do with them is a unsolved problem.
omeid2 7y ago
"Everyone is capable of anything" is a bit of a stretch, but as general rule critical thinking is not improbable for majority of the people. That is, I believe with better education we can have a substantially larger number of people who are capable of critical thinking and can navigate through trickery and misinformation at a basic level.
- wutbrodo 7y ago
  Even under assumptions of universal inherent capability, the dirty truth is that we simply don't know how to reliably teach critical thinking en masse. That's nominally what college is for, but the universalization of college admissions has exposed the fact that the difference between a degreed and non-degreed worker had more to do with the input population to colleges than any direct effect of a college education. This is an unsolved problem, and a really important one in the modern cognitive economy, which is why theories about inherent cognitive capability have gained so much purchase recently. For my part, I think these theories are plausible, but also think that their implications are significant enough that I don't want to be too hasty and buy into them until I've been convinced that we've exhausted the possibility that thinking can be taught.

dsfyu404ed 7y ago

>The only solution to this is better education that teaches critical thinking rather than mechanical parroting-exams based system that is widespread today in majority of the world. As long as... a) The politicians find it easier to manipulate dumb voters and realize that voters with good critical thinking skills are more capable of calling out their BS. and b) The bureaucrats deciding what gets taught in public school are ultimately accountable to people appointed by and accountable to politicians and c) Most of the voting public gets a public school education. ...we will never have a general public with good critical thinking skills. Now, before anyone puts words in my mouth, no there isn't some grand conspiracy to keep the proles stupid, it just so happens that there's a disincentive to making them smart and making them smart takes resources so obviously there's no will to get it done. You'd be surprised how much good stuff the government doesn't do is attributable to this incentive structure.