4 ms·

I don't like that phrase, "tyranny of design". It implies design is just one side of a product. But design is everything. It is both form and function. A produc

I don't like that phrase, "tyranny of design". It implies design is just one side of a product. But design is everything. It is both form and function. A product that has great visual design is still a failure if the functional design is bad. A great designer is holistic and will be able to bring form and function into harmony.. While I don't have the inside scoop on how Jonathan Ive works, my impression is that he's good taste and excels at pushing the edge in materials and manufacturing processes -- he pioneered the aluminium unibody, for example -- and is probably a good leader. But he is not a great or original designer. Apple's recent history is littered with mistakes and poor design decisions, functional and aesthetic both, as well as a lot of unoriginal, boring visual design. There's obviously a lot of pressure at Apple, and they don't make anything easy for themselves, but that's not enough of an excuse to explain everything. To me, the most audacious design decision in recent years was the iPhone X's removal of the home button in favour of a purely gesture-based UI combined with Face ID. That's great design that just worked.

sytelus 7y ago
The iPhone has one of the most slippery surfaces of almost all objects I own. It looks great in photos and ad videos but completely incompatible to the goal of safely holding it in the human hand. Things have became so bad with iPhone XS that I have never seen anyone using it without some ugly sleeve. If anyone has dared not using case/sleeve, they would experience heart wrenching drop out of hand within their first week of use. Do you think this is good design? Why do you think this would happen at design-first company like Apple?
- atombender 7y ago
  No, that's definitely bad design. The thing is like a bar of soap.
- azernik 7y ago
  It's a bad design feature that is sadly common across premium smartphone brands - e.g. the Pixel 3 is also quite hard to grasp. One thing where I think lower-end phone design tends to be better, a function of their lower priority on aesthetics.
  - mantap 7y ago
    It's the fault of wireless charging. Premium phones used to have metal backs, but that is incompatible with wireless charging so we are cursed with glass for eternity now.
    - BurningFrog 7y ago
      Grippable glass is perfectly possible to make and can look great.
    - azernik 7y ago
      You could also go with assorted plastics, and they haven't tried that.
- mrexroad 7y ago
  For most part, I haven’t had a case on my XS since launch. Love the feel. Have yet to drop it. I do put a case on it when I’m doing things like camping or taking photos at amusement parks.
pier25 7y ago
I guess parent poster actually meant the tyranny of aesthetics.
- atombender 7y ago
  Indeed, and I don't like that "design" is thrown around as a synonym for aesthetics. For a good book about what design is: The Design of Everyday Things by Donald Norman [1]. [1] https://www.amazon.com/Design-Everyday-Things-Revised-Expanded-ebook/dp/B00E257T6C https://www.amazon.com/Design-Everyday-Things-Revised-Expand...
- tomjakubowski 7y ago
  Thinness has practical benefits (there are also downsides, of course), it's not purely an aesthetic concern.
  - jimmaswell 7y ago
    Practical benefits like what?
    - mikekchar 7y ago
      The computer fits in my bag, even with my reading glasses. I can carry it a long time without my shoulder getting sore, which means I can use it all day on the go. Another poster mentioned that 32 gig of ram is impossible because the thin design needs lower power requirements. This actually tends to mean that you have more battery time (which is paradoxical, really). I don't have a mac (or even want one), but I've benefitted from the trickle down effect where Toshiba seems to want to close ridiculously thin, long battery lasting macs.
      - pier25 7y ago
        MBPs could have and extra 2mm to accommodate a better keyboard and you wouldn't notice it in your bag.
TimTheTinker 7y ago
> But design is everything. It is both form and function. Steve Jobs would agree with you: "People think it's this veneer – that the designers are handed this box and told, 'Make it look good!' That's not what we think design is. It's not just what it looks like and feels like. Design is how it works." So I think OP's term "tyranny of design" could be better phrased "tyranny of form" (as opposed to function).
- koboll 7y ago
  A big part of the problem is that many designers seem to really want to be artists, not designers, and they tend to want to pull design in an artistic (i.e. form-centric) direction. A casual glance at Dribbble makes this pretty clear.
  - erikpukinskis 7y ago
    Good artists are also not obsessed with form though. Great artists usually have very specific functional goals for their work. It’s fetishists who are obsessed with objects and their shape. I agree, many bad designers would rather be bad artists. But it’s harder to make money as a bad artist than a bad designer.

sytelus 7y ago

The iPhone has one of the most slippery surfaces of almost all objects I own. It looks great in photos and ad videos but completely incompatible to the goal of safely holding it in the human hand. Things have became so bad with iPhone XS that I have never seen anyone using it without some ugly sleeve. If anyone has dared not using case/sleeve, they would experience heart wrenching drop out of hand within their first week of use. Do you think this is good design? Why do you think this would happen at design-first company like Apple?

atombender 7y ago
No, that's definitely bad design. The thing is like a bar of soap.
azernik 7y ago
It's a bad design feature that is sadly common across premium smartphone brands - e.g. the Pixel 3 is also quite hard to grasp. One thing where I think lower-end phone design tends to be better, a function of their lower priority on aesthetics.
- mantap 7y ago
  It's the fault of wireless charging. Premium phones used to have metal backs, but that is incompatible with wireless charging so we are cursed with glass for eternity now.
  - BurningFrog 7y ago
    Grippable glass is perfectly possible to make and can look great.
  - azernik 7y ago
    You could also go with assorted plastics, and they haven't tried that.
mrexroad 7y ago
For most part, I haven’t had a case on my XS since launch. Love the feel. Have yet to drop it. I do put a case on it when I’m doing things like camping or taking photos at amusement parks.

pier25 7y ago

I guess parent poster actually meant the tyranny of aesthetics.

atombender 7y ago
Indeed, and I don't like that "design" is thrown around as a synonym for aesthetics. For a good book about what design is: The Design of Everyday Things by Donald Norman [1]. [1] https://www.amazon.com/Design-Everyday-Things-Revised-Expanded-ebook/dp/B00E257T6C https://www.amazon.com/Design-Everyday-Things-Revised-Expand...
tomjakubowski 7y ago
Thinness has practical benefits (there are also downsides, of course), it's not purely an aesthetic concern.
- jimmaswell 7y ago
  Practical benefits like what?
  - mikekchar 7y ago
    The computer fits in my bag, even with my reading glasses. I can carry it a long time without my shoulder getting sore, which means I can use it all day on the go. Another poster mentioned that 32 gig of ram is impossible because the thin design needs lower power requirements. This actually tends to mean that you have more battery time (which is paradoxical, really). I don't have a mac (or even want one), but I've benefitted from the trickle down effect where Toshiba seems to want to close ridiculously thin, long battery lasting macs.
    - pier25 7y ago
      MBPs could have and extra 2mm to accommodate a better keyboard and you wouldn't notice it in your bag.

TimTheTinker 7y ago

> But design is everything. It is both form and function. Steve Jobs would agree with you: "People think it's this veneer – that the designers are handed this box and told, 'Make it look good!' That's not what we think design is. It's not just what it looks like and feels like. Design is how it works." So I think OP's term "tyranny of design" could be better phrased "tyranny of form" (as opposed to function).

koboll 7y ago
A big part of the problem is that many designers seem to really want to be artists, not designers, and they tend to want to pull design in an artistic (i.e. form-centric) direction. A casual glance at Dribbble makes this pretty clear.
- erikpukinskis 7y ago
  Good artists are also not obsessed with form though. Great artists usually have very specific functional goals for their work. It’s fetishists who are obsessed with objects and their shape. I agree, many bad designers would rather be bad artists. But it’s harder to make money as a bad artist than a bad designer.