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I'm a Sikh, and that's very correct. Sikhism discourages living as a recluse or retreating from the world. You are supposed to actively participate in the socie

I'm a Sikh, and that's very correct. Sikhism discourages living as a recluse or retreating from the world. You are supposed to actively participate in the society, while continuously learning how to become a better person. That's the literal meaning of the word 'Sikh' - a disciple or learner.

steve19 7y ago
Protestant Christianity is the same. It doesn't preach living apart from the world. Not entirely sure about Catholics. Orthodox have always struck me as living apart to some extent but I may be wrong and would be interested in hearing from a follower of Orthodoxy.
- arshneet 7y ago
  I don't know much about Protestants, despite having lived in England for a while. I live in Canada and regularly travel to the US, and still don't know about Protestantism deeply. The little bit I do, has generally led to a positive opinion, as it aligns somewhat more with what I'd believe in.
- daveFNbuck 7y ago
  There are thousands of protestant sects. Just about any generalization you make about them is going to be wrong. Many of them teach that the secular world is sinful and to be avoided.
  - steve19 7y ago
    By far the largest denominations do not teach that. I am sure 0.0001% of the world's 1 billion protostants like the handful of westbro baptists nut cases might believe that. You can find extremists in every religion.
    - xtian 7y ago
      They might not teach it but many do practice it in lots of more or less subtle ways.
    - _iyig 7y ago
      The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons) is a pretty big denomination. On the bright side, they are gradually adopting more progressive views - black people are no longer cursed by God (as of 2013), and drinking soda is no longer forbidden (as of 2017, at least on BYU's campus). Tea and coffee are still haram, however.
      - stevetodd 7y ago
        The LDS Church doesn’t teach to retreat from the world but rather teaches that some of the natural tendencies of people are self destructive and should not to be indulged in. Now to correct some of your bright side points: - The church never held as a belief that black people were cursed. There were some leaders that did not have the authority to speak authoritatively about doctrine that expressed that belief. [1] - Drinking soda has never been forbidden. You may be thinking of caffeine, though that was never explicitly forbidden but BYU did act like it was. - Tea and coffee. Yes, we avoid drinking these and also alcohol. [1] https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/race-and-the-priesthood https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topi...
        _iyig 7y ago
        "In the following year, Smith taught that the curse of Ham came from God, and that blacks were cursed with servitude.[83] He warned those who tried to interfere with slavery that God could do his own work.[84] Without reversing his opinion on the curse of Ham, Smith started expressing more anti-slavery positions starting in 1842.[85]:18[86]:18–19 After Smith's death, leaders of the LDS Church continued to teach that black Africans were under the curse of Ham and that those who tried to abolish slavery were going against the decrees of God, although the day would come when the curse would be nullified through the saving powers of Jesus Christ.[87] In addition, based on his interpretation of the Book of Abraham, Brigham Young believed that, as a result of this curse, negroes were banned from the Mormon priesthood.[88]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_of_Ham#Latter_Day_Saint_movement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_of_Ham#Latter_Day_Saint_...
      - jjeaff 7y ago
  - brightball 7y ago
    The great commission essentially makes it impossible for Christians of any denomination to say that. I’m not saying some don’t, but doing so requires participants who don’t read the Bible on their own at all. It’s kinda like open source that way.
    - steve19 7y ago
      I do agree with you, but sadly many Christians do ignore the fact Jesus hung out with prostitutes and tax collectors, and generally mocked the "perfect" moral police (for their hypocrisy). But individual Christians are like every other human, imperfect.
    - aidenn0 7y ago
      Some quick googling turned up this page, which most Evangelical Christians I know would nod along with, and many arguments from it I have heard directly from them: https://biblereasons.com/being-set-apart/ https://biblereasons.com/being-set-apart/
      - brightball 7y ago
        That's talking about being set apart in behavior, not physical / social isolation. Moderation is a pretty consistent thing throughout the Bible. Just as an example, that page mentions "drunkenness", which is explicitly bad. At the same time, it's perfectly okay to have a glass of wine or a drink now and then as long as you're not getting drunk. Granted that comes with some caveats, mostly boiling down to good judgement and self control. You don't want to make someone stumble, such as encouraging people to do things that they may struggle with (whether it's alcohol, meat or anything else). "Therefore, if what I eat causes my brother or sister to fall into sin, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause them to fall." - 1 Corinthians 8:13 If you have a friend who wants to have a tough conversation over a beer...by all means it's the right choice to go have that beer to talk to that friend. 1 Corinthians 9:19-22 makes that pretty clear. "Though I am free of obligation to anyone, I make myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), to win those under the law. To those without the law I became like one without the law (though I am not outside the law of God but am under the law of Christ), to win those without the law. To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all men, so that by all possible means I might save some." There are a lot of things that people have "heard in church" or have been pushed as part of church culture that are either misunderstood or not biblical at all. There are far too many people who nod along rather than reading the Bible on their own. I always try to drill into people, you cannot be mislead if you've read.
- DylanDmitri 7y ago
  Orthodox here, there's a couple distinctions. Unlike our friends the Catholics, we maintain that physical bodies and the physical world are good and natural. Eating delicious food can bring you closer to God, exercise can bring you closer to God, admiration of nature, etc. There is a separate concept of "living apart from the world". My understanding of this is not "go live in the woods" bur rather "don't be complacent". It's striving for the best possible value system regardless of how people choose to act around you. Society can (and should!) be improved.
  - pvg 7y ago
    Monasticism is a big part of the Orthodox tradition.
    - steve19 7y ago
      Yes not but all are expected to be monks, and they live apart from everyone, not just "the secular world"
      - pvg 7y ago
        I'm not sure I understand the distinction you're trying to make. Most (reasonably practical) religions do not expect everyone to become a hermit. The notion that Eastern Orthodoxy is some kind of super-worldly religion of communing with a tub of ice cream just doesn't strike me as very accurate at all.
        steve19 7y ago
        I wasn't trying to portray as some kind of super-worldly religion, simply saying the exception does not prove the rule.
        pvg 7y ago
        I'm not saying you're trying to portray it as anything (especially since my comment was in reply to someone else), I'm saying that as a branch of Christianity, the Monastic tradition has lasted longer than in the Eastern Orthodox churches than in many others and this is not a particularly difficult thing to notice. It pops out at you if you decide to, say, inflict The Brothers Karamazov on yourself or read news like: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/20/world/europe/mount-athos-greece-russia-eastern-orthodox-church.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/20/world/europe/mount-athos-...
- nine_k 7y ago
  Some Orthodox monks deliberately sought isolation from worldly life to better practice spiritual virtues, like most monks of any faith. Some other Orthodox monks practiced the reverse: living among regular people and keep their monastic status secret. The latter was (is) considered a more difficult feat.
- pjmorris 7y ago
  I agree that Protestant Christianity ought to be the same. In practice, books like 'The Benedictine Option' suggest that Protestants are not of one mind about the matter.
  - scottlocklin 7y ago
    Dreher isn't a protestant; he's Orthodox. Really, he's kind of a LARPer, and that book has received vastly more attention than it deserves.
    - pjmorris 7y ago
      I'm thinking of all the Protestants I know who have it on their bookshelves. I only have it on mine to try and understand what's gotten into their thinking.
      - scottlocklin 7y ago
        Dreher is an (ineffective) algorithm oligarch types have latched onto to try to bring right wing christians under social control. As far as I can tell, Dreher's career consists of being a consumerist hipster (muh microbrews, muh foodie whaddevers) and pretending to be a right wing christian. He's not actually any more Christian or right wing than any other hipster type, and is certainly not conservative at all, despite the outlet he writes for. His psychological furniture is precisely that of a hipster atheist; just a particularly chicken chested one with certain prejudices he finds convenient to excuse with religion. He's changed religions ... I think 3-4 times now, for what amounts to hipster "not cool enough" reasons. Actually religious people in America such as your protestant friends think completely differently. I mean; actually religious people die for religious conviction; Dreher changes religion like a preppie changes ties that go out of fashion. There is no fear of God's wrath in Dreher, no wonder at the mystery of life and the universe; he just thinks gay people are icky, and modernity is kind of groace. His Benedict book is preposterously shallow; it is abundantly obvious he's barely skimmed the history of Christianity, even Benedict's rule: his book is basically a glorified 23 year old hipster's blog post. If you really want to understand protestantism; study the 30 year's war and the paintings of Cranach. Or the Taliban. At least they actually believe in God. Source: I'm not particularly religious, but I know Dreher, and was at one point considered a thinker in this domain.
- collyw 7y ago
  Protestant Christianity was what I was brought up with and I never heard anything specific about that.
onemoresoop 7y ago
That sounds like a plan for a better world, a world where all people reach fulfillment and die in peace. Im curious, do people convert to your religion often? Are Sikh an inclusive religion?
- arshneet 7y ago
  People do convert to Sikhism, but Sikhs don't focus as heavily on getting people converted. The religion is inclusive, and is generally quite welcoming, but there's hardly any appetite for forcing it upon others. This is primarily because the religion is secular at its very core. It had a pivotal role in standing up for rights of other religions during the Mughal rule in the Indian sub-continent. And, there's also the belief that just by putting on the 'Sikh' label, you don't really gain anything. The ultimate purpose is to just become a better human being (the barometer here being the teachings of Guru Granth Sahib, which is generally quite humanistic in its approach. The authors in fact include a number of non-Sikhs). As long as you're a good human being (as in help others, meditate and earn honestly to be basic), it doesn't matter what label you are, is one of the core beliefs. Converts aren't looked down upon, because almost everyone really converted at some point in time, as it's around 500 years old as a religion. On a side note, you'll sometimes hear its 300 years old, but that's incorrect, as that event refers to the birth of Khalsa. A Sikh should generally aim to become a Khalsa. Becoming a Khalsa is kind of similar to baptism, but it's voluntary and mostly done when you grow up and feel you're ready for it (some teens do it under the influence of parents, but I, along with many other Sikhs probably, tend to believe that is against the spirit of the religion. People in early teens don't have a full understanding of what they want, and that's why parents shouldn't do it for them IMHO). I'm in my late 20s and not a Khalsa, for example. And, there are many (probably the majority) like me, not Khalsa but just Sikh. An example is - I studied in two different schools. The first school was Catholic, and I studied there for 12 years. The management used to heavily encourage conversion. For students, there were some benefits like no tuition fees, and maybe some other stuff. For teachers, it was probably a better career. I spent another 2 years in a Sikh school. In that school, rewards were totally independent of religion. If you scored above 90%, you'll get your tuition fees waived. If you were a single girl child (due to female infanticide in the region), I think they did something as well. There was no focus on converting non-Sikhs. This is not to diss on Catholicism, as I've respect for Christians in general and I personally know many good ones, it's probably just that my school didn't do it right. I just find being charitable only to people who are the same religion as yours, not a great idea. Religion shouldn't be a consideration during charity (and in conduct towards people otherwise too). (edited for clarity)
shaklee3 7y ago
Interesting thing I learned recently is it's pronounced "sick", at least according to the world Sikh council [1]. I always thought it was "seek". 1) http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/commcomm/2012/aug/09/pronounce-sikh-correctly/ http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/commcomm/2012/aug/09/pronounc...
- LordAtlas 7y ago
  Well, it's "Sick" with an aspirated "k", which is what the "kh" is for. "Seek" is just mangled pronunciation like "goo-roo" for "guru".

steve19 7y ago

Protestant Christianity is the same. It doesn't preach living apart from the world. Not entirely sure about Catholics. Orthodox have always struck me as living apart to some extent but I may be wrong and would be interested in hearing from a follower of Orthodoxy.

arshneet 7y ago
I don't know much about Protestants, despite having lived in England for a while. I live in Canada and regularly travel to the US, and still don't know about Protestantism deeply. The little bit I do, has generally led to a positive opinion, as it aligns somewhat more with what I'd believe in.
daveFNbuck 7y ago
There are thousands of protestant sects. Just about any generalization you make about them is going to be wrong. Many of them teach that the secular world is sinful and to be avoided.
- steve19 7y ago
  By far the largest denominations do not teach that. I am sure 0.0001% of the world's 1 billion protostants like the handful of westbro baptists nut cases might believe that. You can find extremists in every religion.
  - xtian 7y ago
    They might not teach it but many do practice it in lots of more or less subtle ways.
  - _iyig 7y ago
    The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons) is a pretty big denomination. On the bright side, they are gradually adopting more progressive views - black people are no longer cursed by God (as of 2013), and drinking soda is no longer forbidden (as of 2017, at least on BYU's campus). Tea and coffee are still haram, however.
    - stevetodd 7y ago
      The LDS Church doesn’t teach to retreat from the world but rather teaches that some of the natural tendencies of people are self destructive and should not to be indulged in. Now to correct some of your bright side points: - The church never held as a belief that black people were cursed. There were some leaders that did not have the authority to speak authoritatively about doctrine that expressed that belief. [1] - Drinking soda has never been forbidden. You may be thinking of caffeine, though that was never explicitly forbidden but BYU did act like it was. - Tea and coffee. Yes, we avoid drinking these and also alcohol. [1] https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/race-and-the-priesthood https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topi...
      - _iyig 7y ago
        "In the following year, Smith taught that the curse of Ham came from God, and that blacks were cursed with servitude.[83] He warned those who tried to interfere with slavery that God could do his own work.[84] Without reversing his opinion on the curse of Ham, Smith started expressing more anti-slavery positions starting in 1842.[85]:18[86]:18–19 After Smith's death, leaders of the LDS Church continued to teach that black Africans were under the curse of Ham and that those who tried to abolish slavery were going against the decrees of God, although the day would come when the curse would be nullified through the saving powers of Jesus Christ.[87] In addition, based on his interpretation of the Book of Abraham, Brigham Young believed that, as a result of this curse, negroes were banned from the Mormon priesthood.[88]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_of_Ham#Latter_Day_Saint_movement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_of_Ham#Latter_Day_Saint_...
    - jjeaff 7y ago
- brightball 7y ago
  The great commission essentially makes it impossible for Christians of any denomination to say that. I’m not saying some don’t, but doing so requires participants who don’t read the Bible on their own at all. It’s kinda like open source that way.
  - steve19 7y ago
    I do agree with you, but sadly many Christians do ignore the fact Jesus hung out with prostitutes and tax collectors, and generally mocked the "perfect" moral police (for their hypocrisy). But individual Christians are like every other human, imperfect.
  - aidenn0 7y ago
    Some quick googling turned up this page, which most Evangelical Christians I know would nod along with, and many arguments from it I have heard directly from them: https://biblereasons.com/being-set-apart/ https://biblereasons.com/being-set-apart/
    - brightball 7y ago
      That's talking about being set apart in behavior, not physical / social isolation. Moderation is a pretty consistent thing throughout the Bible. Just as an example, that page mentions "drunkenness", which is explicitly bad. At the same time, it's perfectly okay to have a glass of wine or a drink now and then as long as you're not getting drunk. Granted that comes with some caveats, mostly boiling down to good judgement and self control. You don't want to make someone stumble, such as encouraging people to do things that they may struggle with (whether it's alcohol, meat or anything else). "Therefore, if what I eat causes my brother or sister to fall into sin, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause them to fall." - 1 Corinthians 8:13 If you have a friend who wants to have a tough conversation over a beer...by all means it's the right choice to go have that beer to talk to that friend. 1 Corinthians 9:19-22 makes that pretty clear. "Though I am free of obligation to anyone, I make myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), to win those under the law. To those without the law I became like one without the law (though I am not outside the law of God but am under the law of Christ), to win those without the law. To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all men, so that by all possible means I might save some." There are a lot of things that people have "heard in church" or have been pushed as part of church culture that are either misunderstood or not biblical at all. There are far too many people who nod along rather than reading the Bible on their own. I always try to drill into people, you cannot be mislead if you've read.
DylanDmitri 7y ago
Orthodox here, there's a couple distinctions. Unlike our friends the Catholics, we maintain that physical bodies and the physical world are good and natural. Eating delicious food can bring you closer to God, exercise can bring you closer to God, admiration of nature, etc. There is a separate concept of "living apart from the world". My understanding of this is not "go live in the woods" bur rather "don't be complacent". It's striving for the best possible value system regardless of how people choose to act around you. Society can (and should!) be improved.
- pvg 7y ago
  Monasticism is a big part of the Orthodox tradition.
  - steve19 7y ago
    Yes not but all are expected to be monks, and they live apart from everyone, not just "the secular world"
    - pvg 7y ago
      I'm not sure I understand the distinction you're trying to make. Most (reasonably practical) religions do not expect everyone to become a hermit. The notion that Eastern Orthodoxy is some kind of super-worldly religion of communing with a tub of ice cream just doesn't strike me as very accurate at all.
      - steve19 7y ago
        I wasn't trying to portray as some kind of super-worldly religion, simply saying the exception does not prove the rule.
        pvg 7y ago
        I'm not saying you're trying to portray it as anything (especially since my comment was in reply to someone else), I'm saying that as a branch of Christianity, the Monastic tradition has lasted longer than in the Eastern Orthodox churches than in many others and this is not a particularly difficult thing to notice. It pops out at you if you decide to, say, inflict The Brothers Karamazov on yourself or read news like: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/20/world/europe/mount-athos-greece-russia-eastern-orthodox-church.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/20/world/europe/mount-athos-...
nine_k 7y ago
Some Orthodox monks deliberately sought isolation from worldly life to better practice spiritual virtues, like most monks of any faith. Some other Orthodox monks practiced the reverse: living among regular people and keep their monastic status secret. The latter was (is) considered a more difficult feat.
pjmorris 7y ago
I agree that Protestant Christianity ought to be the same. In practice, books like 'The Benedictine Option' suggest that Protestants are not of one mind about the matter.
- scottlocklin 7y ago
  Dreher isn't a protestant; he's Orthodox. Really, he's kind of a LARPer, and that book has received vastly more attention than it deserves.
  - pjmorris 7y ago
    I'm thinking of all the Protestants I know who have it on their bookshelves. I only have it on mine to try and understand what's gotten into their thinking.
    - scottlocklin 7y ago
      Dreher is an (ineffective) algorithm oligarch types have latched onto to try to bring right wing christians under social control. As far as I can tell, Dreher's career consists of being a consumerist hipster (muh microbrews, muh foodie whaddevers) and pretending to be a right wing christian. He's not actually any more Christian or right wing than any other hipster type, and is certainly not conservative at all, despite the outlet he writes for. His psychological furniture is precisely that of a hipster atheist; just a particularly chicken chested one with certain prejudices he finds convenient to excuse with religion. He's changed religions ... I think 3-4 times now, for what amounts to hipster "not cool enough" reasons. Actually religious people in America such as your protestant friends think completely differently. I mean; actually religious people die for religious conviction; Dreher changes religion like a preppie changes ties that go out of fashion. There is no fear of God's wrath in Dreher, no wonder at the mystery of life and the universe; he just thinks gay people are icky, and modernity is kind of groace. His Benedict book is preposterously shallow; it is abundantly obvious he's barely skimmed the history of Christianity, even Benedict's rule: his book is basically a glorified 23 year old hipster's blog post. If you really want to understand protestantism; study the 30 year's war and the paintings of Cranach. Or the Taliban. At least they actually believe in God. Source: I'm not particularly religious, but I know Dreher, and was at one point considered a thinker in this domain.
collyw 7y ago
Protestant Christianity was what I was brought up with and I never heard anything specific about that.

onemoresoop 7y ago

That sounds like a plan for a better world, a world where all people reach fulfillment and die in peace. Im curious, do people convert to your religion often? Are Sikh an inclusive religion?

arshneet 7y ago
People do convert to Sikhism, but Sikhs don't focus as heavily on getting people converted. The religion is inclusive, and is generally quite welcoming, but there's hardly any appetite for forcing it upon others. This is primarily because the religion is secular at its very core. It had a pivotal role in standing up for rights of other religions during the Mughal rule in the Indian sub-continent. And, there's also the belief that just by putting on the 'Sikh' label, you don't really gain anything. The ultimate purpose is to just become a better human being (the barometer here being the teachings of Guru Granth Sahib, which is generally quite humanistic in its approach. The authors in fact include a number of non-Sikhs). As long as you're a good human being (as in help others, meditate and earn honestly to be basic), it doesn't matter what label you are, is one of the core beliefs. Converts aren't looked down upon, because almost everyone really converted at some point in time, as it's around 500 years old as a religion. On a side note, you'll sometimes hear its 300 years old, but that's incorrect, as that event refers to the birth of Khalsa. A Sikh should generally aim to become a Khalsa. Becoming a Khalsa is kind of similar to baptism, but it's voluntary and mostly done when you grow up and feel you're ready for it (some teens do it under the influence of parents, but I, along with many other Sikhs probably, tend to believe that is against the spirit of the religion. People in early teens don't have a full understanding of what they want, and that's why parents shouldn't do it for them IMHO). I'm in my late 20s and not a Khalsa, for example. And, there are many (probably the majority) like me, not Khalsa but just Sikh. An example is - I studied in two different schools. The first school was Catholic, and I studied there for 12 years. The management used to heavily encourage conversion. For students, there were some benefits like no tuition fees, and maybe some other stuff. For teachers, it was probably a better career. I spent another 2 years in a Sikh school. In that school, rewards were totally independent of religion. If you scored above 90%, you'll get your tuition fees waived. If you were a single girl child (due to female infanticide in the region), I think they did something as well. There was no focus on converting non-Sikhs. This is not to diss on Catholicism, as I've respect for Christians in general and I personally know many good ones, it's probably just that my school didn't do it right. I just find being charitable only to people who are the same religion as yours, not a great idea. Religion shouldn't be a consideration during charity (and in conduct towards people otherwise too). (edited for clarity)

shaklee3 7y ago

Interesting thing I learned recently is it's pronounced "sick", at least according to the world Sikh council [1]. I always thought it was "seek". 1) http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/commcomm/2012/aug/09/pronounce-sikh-correctly/ http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/commcomm/2012/aug/09/pronounc...

LordAtlas 7y ago
Well, it's "Sick" with an aspirated "k", which is what the "kh" is for. "Seek" is just mangled pronunciation like "goo-roo" for "guru".