9 ms·

Every time phones, OSes and websites update, I watch my parents struggling to deal with all the UI changes and I keep thinking I am going to be there one day.

by kodz4 7y ago

Every time phones, OSes and websites update, I watch my parents struggling to deal with all the UI changes and I keep thinking I am going to be there one day. Maybe this is the solution to all the unending changes. In Vernor Vinge's Rainbows End, there is an old man who wakes up in the future and is struggling to use the latest interfaces. So the comp just overlays the old Windows 95(?) interface that he is happy and familiar with.

theandrewbailey 7y ago
At least Windows 95 had colorful icons, labels, and tooltips on everything. Black on gray dialog boxes didn't blind you, and it had sufficient contrast to be readable (unlike every designer's website that uses microscopic gray text on barely different gray). On the flip side, about 8-ish years ago, I installed Xubuntu on my parent's PC, replacing XP. I told them here's Thunderbird, Firefox, Solitare, and how to shut down. Once I said that it worked like Windows (i.e. the X in the corner closes things), they didn't have any problems. I anticipated having to move them back to Windows, but didn't need to.
- collyw 7y ago
  Design trends seems to be getting less and less useful in favor of looking pretty. It took me around two years of seeing hamburger menus before it actually clicked that it was a "standard" icon for a menu. Now that icon seems to be getting replaced to three dots for a menu. Why?
  - Crinus 7y ago
    And pretty is subjective, i find the Win9x, Win2K, OS/2 (...to some extent), BeOS, and KDE1 icons better looking than the more recent ones which are usually monochromatic. The Win9x icons tried to be colorful but also were limited by a 4bit palette, which meant that they were both high contrast and had bright colors. Win2K icons are a softer version of those and KDE1 icons are what you'd probably get if you tried to make icons in the style of Win9x/OS/2 but without the technical limitations. I was never a fan of WinXP and Vista/7 icons, too plasticky, often faded out and shiny. I did like macOS icons before they decided to get rid of skeuomorphism and made everything like it was designed by a 5 year old with a vector application. They were high quality but also had high readability. As a developer i hated them though because they were very hard to make something decent. I also like the GNOME 2/Tango style and the elementaryOS style which seems to me to be based on Tango. Tango is a bit WinXP-ish but i think they did a better job with making the icons less plasticky and more readable. But my favorite is the Win9x and KDE1 styles because of both how they look and how easy (relatively speaking) is to make them (which is important, otherwise it is hard to get a consistent look).
agumonkey 7y ago
Depends, I'd be surprised if I'm that lost on any interface (being born in the 80s and having dealt with a wide spectrum of them). That said, I rant a lot more these days, but not because it's new or different, it's because I know that the change is not done for the right reasons.
- cgriswald 7y ago
  I found myself lost on a few interfaces which require some arcane sequence of gestures, and I think the first time I ran into a hamburger menu I didn’t realize what it was. Once I learned the tricks I could figure out other similar interfaces but it definitely made me appreciate why grandpa’s VCR was always flashing 12:00.
  - agumonkey 7y ago
    Yeah they can make you trip for a minute but you know that any system has a set of inputs, that can be sequenced or composed. It won't take long until you figure it out. People born before learned by habits, they have no conceptual understanding of what's going on; any change kills their interactions with the device.
WalterBright 7y ago
The UI changes are rarely better, and often much worse. They just shuffle things around, and add annoying glitz. Cars are getting pretty bad, too. Especially with the transition to inscrutable icons. Apparently words like "On", "Defrost", "Fuel", etc., are unhip and so 20th century.
- viraptor 7y ago
  I suspect that's about international markets. Everyone knows the fuel distributor, or the window heating icon. Not everyone understands "Fuel". (Or did you want to say "Gas" ;) ) Also do you want to get into a car rented in Europe and find the texts to read (for example) "Włącz", "Rozmrażanie", "Paliwo"?
  - WalterBright 7y ago
    > Everyone knows the fuel distributor, or the window heating icon. No they don't. I've been in a car with a front window defroster and a rear one. The icons are different, but who knows which is which. > Not everyone understands "Fuel" More than understand an inscrutable icon. Besides, anyone can look up Fuel in a dictionary. How do you look up an icon? > "Włącz", "Rozmrażanie", "Paliwo"? Dictionaries are marvelous tools. translate.google.com works great, too. There are no icon dictionaries, especially when everyone copyrights them so every icon is different. If you don't know what the icon means, you're borked. Hey, I'd settle for the wretched icon if underneath it they're write "Defrost". Besides, I've traveled in Poland. I don't know a word of Polish, but had a wonderful time regardless. Everyone I met was very nice.
    - tty2300 7y ago
      The front window defrost has always been an option on the air con dial and the rear is a button
      - BeetleB 7y ago
        >The front window defrost has always been an option on the air con dial and the rear is a button This hasn't been the standard for a long time. My 2003 and my 2015 cars both have them both as buttons.
rayiner 7y ago
I’m there already. They changed the Netflix app on the Apple TV and now I can’t figure out how to use it.
skocznymroczny 7y ago
I don't think we will. We come from a different era and we know how to explore unknown interfaces. Our parents don't. My mom has been using devices such as radios or dishwasher for decades, but she still doesn't understand that "triangle" means "Play/Start", "square" means "Stop", "parallel lines" means Pause. Likewise power on button is always a circle with a line on it, but give her a new device and the first question is "how do I turn it on".

by kodz4 7y ago

theandrewbailey 7y ago

At least Windows 95 had colorful icons, labels, and tooltips on everything. Black on gray dialog boxes didn't blind you, and it had sufficient contrast to be readable (unlike every designer's website that uses microscopic gray text on barely different gray). On the flip side, about 8-ish years ago, I installed Xubuntu on my parent's PC, replacing XP. I told them here's Thunderbird, Firefox, Solitare, and how to shut down. Once I said that it worked like Windows (i.e. the X in the corner closes things), they didn't have any problems. I anticipated having to move them back to Windows, but didn't need to.

collyw 7y ago
Design trends seems to be getting less and less useful in favor of looking pretty. It took me around two years of seeing hamburger menus before it actually clicked that it was a "standard" icon for a menu. Now that icon seems to be getting replaced to three dots for a menu. Why?
- Crinus 7y ago
  And pretty is subjective, i find the Win9x, Win2K, OS/2 (...to some extent), BeOS, and KDE1 icons better looking than the more recent ones which are usually monochromatic. The Win9x icons tried to be colorful but also were limited by a 4bit palette, which meant that they were both high contrast and had bright colors. Win2K icons are a softer version of those and KDE1 icons are what you'd probably get if you tried to make icons in the style of Win9x/OS/2 but without the technical limitations. I was never a fan of WinXP and Vista/7 icons, too plasticky, often faded out and shiny. I did like macOS icons before they decided to get rid of skeuomorphism and made everything like it was designed by a 5 year old with a vector application. They were high quality but also had high readability. As a developer i hated them though because they were very hard to make something decent. I also like the GNOME 2/Tango style and the elementaryOS style which seems to me to be based on Tango. Tango is a bit WinXP-ish but i think they did a better job with making the icons less plasticky and more readable. But my favorite is the Win9x and KDE1 styles because of both how they look and how easy (relatively speaking) is to make them (which is important, otherwise it is hard to get a consistent look).

agumonkey 7y ago

Depends, I'd be surprised if I'm that lost on any interface (being born in the 80s and having dealt with a wide spectrum of them). That said, I rant a lot more these days, but not because it's new or different, it's because I know that the change is not done for the right reasons.

cgriswald 7y ago
I found myself lost on a few interfaces which require some arcane sequence of gestures, and I think the first time I ran into a hamburger menu I didn’t realize what it was. Once I learned the tricks I could figure out other similar interfaces but it definitely made me appreciate why grandpa’s VCR was always flashing 12:00.
- agumonkey 7y ago
  Yeah they can make you trip for a minute but you know that any system has a set of inputs, that can be sequenced or composed. It won't take long until you figure it out. People born before learned by habits, they have no conceptual understanding of what's going on; any change kills their interactions with the device.

WalterBright 7y ago

The UI changes are rarely better, and often much worse. They just shuffle things around, and add annoying glitz. Cars are getting pretty bad, too. Especially with the transition to inscrutable icons. Apparently words like "On", "Defrost", "Fuel", etc., are unhip and so 20th century.

viraptor 7y ago
I suspect that's about international markets. Everyone knows the fuel distributor, or the window heating icon. Not everyone understands "Fuel". (Or did you want to say "Gas" ;) ) Also do you want to get into a car rented in Europe and find the texts to read (for example) "Włącz", "Rozmrażanie", "Paliwo"?
- WalterBright 7y ago
  > Everyone knows the fuel distributor, or the window heating icon. No they don't. I've been in a car with a front window defroster and a rear one. The icons are different, but who knows which is which. > Not everyone understands "Fuel" More than understand an inscrutable icon. Besides, anyone can look up Fuel in a dictionary. How do you look up an icon? > "Włącz", "Rozmrażanie", "Paliwo"? Dictionaries are marvelous tools. translate.google.com works great, too. There are no icon dictionaries, especially when everyone copyrights them so every icon is different. If you don't know what the icon means, you're borked. Hey, I'd settle for the wretched icon if underneath it they're write "Defrost". Besides, I've traveled in Poland. I don't know a word of Polish, but had a wonderful time regardless. Everyone I met was very nice.
  - tty2300 7y ago
    The front window defrost has always been an option on the air con dial and the rear is a button
    - BeetleB 7y ago
      >The front window defrost has always been an option on the air con dial and the rear is a button This hasn't been the standard for a long time. My 2003 and my 2015 cars both have them both as buttons.

rayiner 7y ago

I’m there already. They changed the Netflix app on the Apple TV and now I can’t figure out how to use it.

skocznymroczny 7y ago

I don't think we will. We come from a different era and we know how to explore unknown interfaces. Our parents don't. My mom has been using devices such as radios or dishwasher for decades, but she still doesn't understand that "triangle" means "Play/Start", "square" means "Stop", "parallel lines" means Pause. Likewise power on button is always a circle with a line on it, but give her a new device and the first question is "how do I turn it on".