4 ms·

> ...and then slapping Google tracking into everything they do... Huh, I must have missed that - if true, this is a huge breach of trust for me. Do you have a

by amenod 7y ago

> ...and then slapping Google tracking into everything they do... Huh, I must have missed that - if true, this is a huge breach of trust for me. Do you have a link?

Certhas 7y ago
Until it's provided I would assume that it's a gross misrepresentation/exaggeration.
- lucideer 7y ago
  Other than putting Google Analytics on all Mozilla properties as sibling commenters have already mentioned (link to info on that here [0]), there is also the following: - as I mentioned in another comment, Firefox Preview comes with Google as a default search engine (not a huge issue) and with "search suggestions" enabled by default (which sends everything you ever type to Google). - Even if you disable search suggestions (or change provider), Firefox has a built-in feature called "Google Safe Browsing" which collates every URL you visit and sends bulk reports to Google. This feature is only disable-able via the "here be dragons" about:config area. - then there's Google Location Services, which sends your WiFi router SSID, SSIDs of routers in range, and hardware details, to Google. This is less clear cut as Mozilla's use of this service has been on-off over time, and varies per device. See[1] [0] https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/privacy/websites/ https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/privacy/websites/ [1] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1512161 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1512161
  - roca 7y ago
    This amounts to far less than "slapping Google tracking into everything they do", which reasonable people would interpret to include just using the browser. Reasonable people also understand that performing Google searches sends data to Google. Safe Browsing DOES NOT reveal URLs to Google. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Safe_Browsing#Privacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Safe_Browsing#Privacy and read the protocol spec or Firefox source code if you doubt this. > Google Location Services, which sends your WiFi router SSID, SSIDs of routers in range, and hardware details, to Google. This is less clear cut as Mozilla's use of this service has been on-off over time, and varies per device. Mozilla has made a significant investment to try to get away from this by building the Mozilla Location Service. In the meantime it's a straight tradeoff between quality of user experience and information leakage. Experience shows that degrading the user experience for some invisible and small privacy benefit is not a winning strategy.
  - fabrice_d 7y ago
    Safe Browsing doesn't report plaintext urls to Google. See https://wiki.mozilla.org/Security/Safe_Browsing https://wiki.mozilla.org/Security/Safe_Browsing and the more precisely the Update API it's using from https://developers.google.com/safe-browsing/v4/ https://developers.google.com/safe-browsing/v4/
  - dblohm7 7y ago
    "One of the most persistent misunderstandings about Safe Browsing is the idea that the browser needs to send all visited URLs to Google in order to verify whether or not they are safe." https://feeding.cloud.geek.nz/posts/how-safe-browsing-works-in-firefox/ https://feeding.cloud.geek.nz/posts/how-safe-browsing-works-...
  - rrix2 7y ago
    > Firefox has a built-in feature called "Google Safe Browsing" which collates every URL you visit and sends bulk reports to Google. This feature is only disable-able via the "here be dragons" about:config area. Is this not 'about:preferences' -> Privacy & Security -> Block dangerous and deceptive content ?
  - mncolinlee 7y ago
    Safe Browsing in Firefox is nothing more than a flat list of malware-laden sites your browser downloads. It compares your current site against the list to warn you if a match occurs. It does nothing else whatsoever. Even the most basic search of technical details would show that. Firefox code is also open to be read.
  - amenod 7y ago
    Thanks for the clarification - this is all acceptable in my eyes then. Of course I never use Google Search (prefer Qwant, StartPage and DDG) and location services are never running in my browser. Safe Browsing - I prefer not to have it enabled, but it's not such a risk if it is. This is quite a different thing from using Chrome(-ish browsers) with the "phone home".
    - lucideer 7y ago
      Exactly. This is what it comes down to: I still use Firefox confidently despite being aware of these issues, as I'm aware they're still very minor compared to running Chrome, or even any other Google-engine-based project. It's still however worthwhile probing these issues. They're still far from ideal, even if they're preferable as a "least worst" option.
zaarn 7y ago
They do use Google Analytics on their websites but they do have a contract with Google that explicitly states that Google cannot use any of that data for tracking ever for any reason at all. Would make Mozilla rich if Google violated that.
yorwba 7y ago
E.g. this issue about Google Analytics on about:addons https://github.com/mozilla/addons-frontend/issues/2785 https://github.com/mozilla/addons-frontend/issues/2785
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

by amenod 7y ago

> ...and then slapping Google tracking into everything they do... Huh, I must have missed that - if true, this is a huge breach of trust for me. Do you have a link?

Certhas 7y ago

Until it's provided I would assume that it's a gross misrepresentation/exaggeration.

lucideer 7y ago
Other than putting Google Analytics on all Mozilla properties as sibling commenters have already mentioned (link to info on that here [0]), there is also the following: - as I mentioned in another comment, Firefox Preview comes with Google as a default search engine (not a huge issue) and with "search suggestions" enabled by default (which sends everything you ever type to Google). - Even if you disable search suggestions (or change provider), Firefox has a built-in feature called "Google Safe Browsing" which collates every URL you visit and sends bulk reports to Google. This feature is only disable-able via the "here be dragons" about:config area. - then there's Google Location Services, which sends your WiFi router SSID, SSIDs of routers in range, and hardware details, to Google. This is less clear cut as Mozilla's use of this service has been on-off over time, and varies per device. See[1] [0] https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/privacy/websites/ https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/privacy/websites/ [1] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1512161 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1512161
- roca 7y ago
  This amounts to far less than "slapping Google tracking into everything they do", which reasonable people would interpret to include just using the browser. Reasonable people also understand that performing Google searches sends data to Google. Safe Browsing DOES NOT reveal URLs to Google. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Safe_Browsing#Privacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Safe_Browsing#Privacy and read the protocol spec or Firefox source code if you doubt this. > Google Location Services, which sends your WiFi router SSID, SSIDs of routers in range, and hardware details, to Google. This is less clear cut as Mozilla's use of this service has been on-off over time, and varies per device. Mozilla has made a significant investment to try to get away from this by building the Mozilla Location Service. In the meantime it's a straight tradeoff between quality of user experience and information leakage. Experience shows that degrading the user experience for some invisible and small privacy benefit is not a winning strategy.
- fabrice_d 7y ago
  Safe Browsing doesn't report plaintext urls to Google. See https://wiki.mozilla.org/Security/Safe_Browsing https://wiki.mozilla.org/Security/Safe_Browsing and the more precisely the Update API it's using from https://developers.google.com/safe-browsing/v4/ https://developers.google.com/safe-browsing/v4/
- dblohm7 7y ago
  "One of the most persistent misunderstandings about Safe Browsing is the idea that the browser needs to send all visited URLs to Google in order to verify whether or not they are safe." https://feeding.cloud.geek.nz/posts/how-safe-browsing-works-in-firefox/ https://feeding.cloud.geek.nz/posts/how-safe-browsing-works-...
- rrix2 7y ago
  > Firefox has a built-in feature called "Google Safe Browsing" which collates every URL you visit and sends bulk reports to Google. This feature is only disable-able via the "here be dragons" about:config area. Is this not 'about:preferences' -> Privacy & Security -> Block dangerous and deceptive content ?
- mncolinlee 7y ago
  Safe Browsing in Firefox is nothing more than a flat list of malware-laden sites your browser downloads. It compares your current site against the list to warn you if a match occurs. It does nothing else whatsoever. Even the most basic search of technical details would show that. Firefox code is also open to be read.
- amenod 7y ago
  Thanks for the clarification - this is all acceptable in my eyes then. Of course I never use Google Search (prefer Qwant, StartPage and DDG) and location services are never running in my browser. Safe Browsing - I prefer not to have it enabled, but it's not such a risk if it is. This is quite a different thing from using Chrome(-ish browsers) with the "phone home".
  - lucideer 7y ago
    Exactly. This is what it comes down to: I still use Firefox confidently despite being aware of these issues, as I'm aware they're still very minor compared to running Chrome, or even any other Google-engine-based project. It's still however worthwhile probing these issues. They're still far from ideal, even if they're preferable as a "least worst" option.

zaarn 7y ago

They do use Google Analytics on their websites but they do have a contract with Google that explicitly states that Google cannot use any of that data for tracking ever for any reason at all. Would make Mozilla rich if Google violated that.

yorwba 7y ago

E.g. this issue about Google Analytics on about:addons https://github.com/mozilla/addons-frontend/issues/2785 https://github.com/mozilla/addons-frontend/issues/2785

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]