5 ms·

Your first two examples are questionable, because you don't define what "as understood by liberals" means. * 50% believe abortion should be legal in any circum

Your first two examples are questionable, because you don't define what "as understood by liberals" means. * 50% believe abortion should be legal in any circumstances, plus 29% believe it should be legal in some. That's 79%, which is a supermajority. * 30% believe immigration should be increased, plus 37% believe it should stay the same (though "same as what" is not clear). That's 67%, which is a supermajority. Your third and fourth examples simply don't support your claim at all. 61% believe gun sales should be more limited, which by some definitions is already a supermajority. 66% believe marijuana should be legal, likewise. You're just not representing the facts accurately. Even if you play around a bit with which answers represent a liberal view and what definition of supermajority should apply, you could just drop "super" and three out of four would be clear slam-dunks for your interlocutor. In context, the original claim about gerrymandering thwarting the will of the majority is clearly true according to your own data.

ctlby 7y ago
I was vague with the meaning of "liberal." Otherwise I completely stand by the post. * Re: abortion. You reversed the "all circumstances" and "some circumstances" labels: only 29% say the former, 50% say the latter. It's not in my original post, but when you dig in to what people mean when they say "some circumstances," they imagine more restricted access than we have now, not less [1]. To emphasize: more people want to restrict or ban abortion than want to expand access (the "liberal" position). * Re: immigration. I'm not sure why you're staking a claim on the "stay the same" slice; their legislative desires are evidently not being thwarted. Otherwise, more people want to decrease immigration than increase it (the "liberal" position). * Re: guns. I've never seen super-majority to mean anything other than 66% or 75%. Support for restriction (the "liberal" position) doesn't clear the threshold. And if we adopt a more realistic liberal position like "ban assault rifles"--well, a majority oppose that [2]. * Re: drug laws. I acknowledged the marijuana bit right there in my post. Besides that, legalization is wildly unpopular [3]. If there's a point to all this, it's that liberal positions see little legislative success not because of gerrymandering or voter suppression or whatever other boogeymen--it's because they're unpopular. [1] https://www.npr.org/2019/06/07/730183531/poll-majority-want-to-keep-abortion-legal-but-they-also-want-restrictions https://www.npr.org/2019/06/07/730183531/poll-majority-want-... [2] https://news.gallup.com/poll/243860/snapshot-majority-oppose-ban-assault-rifles.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/243860/snapshot-majority-oppose... [3] https://www.vox.com/2016/3/15/11224500/marijuana-legalization-war-on-drugs-poll https://www.vox.com/2016/3/15/11224500/marijuana-legalizatio...

ctlby 7y ago

I was vague with the meaning of "liberal." Otherwise I completely stand by the post. * Re: abortion. You reversed the "all circumstances" and "some circumstances" labels: only 29% say the former, 50% say the latter. It's not in my original post, but when you dig in to what people mean when they say "some circumstances," they imagine more restricted access than we have now, not less [1]. To emphasize: more people want to restrict or ban abortion than want to expand access (the "liberal" position). * Re: immigration. I'm not sure why you're staking a claim on the "stay the same" slice; their legislative desires are evidently not being thwarted. Otherwise, more people want to decrease immigration than increase it (the "liberal" position). * Re: guns. I've never seen super-majority to mean anything other than 66% or 75%. Support for restriction (the "liberal" position) doesn't clear the threshold. And if we adopt a more realistic liberal position like "ban assault rifles"--well, a majority oppose that [2]. * Re: drug laws. I acknowledged the marijuana bit right there in my post. Besides that, legalization is wildly unpopular [3]. If there's a point to all this, it's that liberal positions see little legislative success not because of gerrymandering or voter suppression or whatever other boogeymen--it's because they're unpopular. [1] https://www.npr.org/2019/06/07/730183531/poll-majority-want-to-keep-abortion-legal-but-they-also-want-restrictions https://www.npr.org/2019/06/07/730183531/poll-majority-want-... [2] https://news.gallup.com/poll/243860/snapshot-majority-oppose-ban-assault-rifles.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/243860/snapshot-majority-oppose... [3] https://www.vox.com/2016/3/15/11224500/marijuana-legalization-war-on-drugs-poll https://www.vox.com/2016/3/15/11224500/marijuana-legalizatio...