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Sikh drivers are transforming U.S. trucking

216 points by ssully 7y ago

neonate 7y ago
http://archive.is/Dr07t http://archive.is/Dr07t
bozoUser 7y ago
Sources of more information. Reddit AMA by one of Sikh drivers here - https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/be99o8/hi_im_satnam_singh_ive_been_trucking_for_25_years/ https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/be99o8/hi_im_satnam_s... Untold America episode here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKXf89yNDP4&list=PLZd3QRtSy5LND882pw870FbVvdeygZ5pa https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKXf89yNDP4&list=PLZd3QRtSy5...
rmbryan 7y ago
I understand reminders as a generalized practice, but this metaphor is one I'll have to meditate on: "Every day, he wears a silver bracelet that symbolizes a handcuff. “Remember, you are handcuffed to God. Remind yourself to not do bad things,” Pal says. It reminds him to be kind in the face of ignorance and hatred."
- asark 7y ago
  My knowledge of Sikh religion is pretty limited, but as I understand it, they join most other major religions in seeing the world and ordinary, secular life as full of temptation and moral danger... but unlike most major religions, they discourage retreating from the world and ordinary secular life. This is striking since there's so much agreement on retreat-from-the-world being valuable and even laudable in other faiths. Many traditions hold ultimate enlightenment and engagement with the divine as being actually, or at least practically, impossible without it. IOW Sikhs deliberately practice their religion on hard mode. Badass.
  - nsenifty 7y ago
    Hinduism calls it Karma yoga[1] - the path of selfless action. It is portrayed in no way inferior to other approaches. Do you work well with passion without attachment towards results. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karma_yoga https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karma_yoga
    - kbenson 7y ago
      > Do you work well with passion without attachment towards results. I assume by "results" you mean recompense or renown, since you mention doing work "well". I only mention it because to me "results" are what I use to define whether my work was done well, and aren't what I think of when considering whether it was materially beneficial for me.
      - ASTP001 7y ago
        I think the key there is "attachment." I think seeing the results without being attached to it can also improve analysis of the outcome with respect to the quality of input if there is less personal/emotional attachment to the work that is being accomplished.
      - fellellor 7y ago
        The idea is to focus on doing your job well and release yourself from the pressure of the side effects, like fame and other things that are expected rewards for a job well done. Getting those rewards might represent their own bit of karma yoga, with separate effort. It is silly to think a divine entity is going to descend from the heavens to ensure that you get your just rewards for doing a good job.
      - rramadass 7y ago
        The idea is to do one's work without emotional attachment to "results". In modern day psychology it is called "self-distancing". It is nothing mystical but commonsense. The way to understand the rationale is; even though "self-effort" has to be put forth towards a goal, because there can be so many other factors involved in deciding the outcome (most important being random chance) that it is best to have no emotional ties to outcomes. That way one does not fall into despair and a negative frame of mind if things turn out wrong but still can choose to experience joy when things turn out well.
  - arshneet 7y ago
    I'm a Sikh, and that's very correct. Sikhism discourages living as a recluse or retreating from the world. You are supposed to actively participate in the society, while continuously learning how to become a better person. That's the literal meaning of the word 'Sikh' - a disciple or learner.
    - steve19 7y ago
      Protestant Christianity is the same. It doesn't preach living apart from the world. Not entirely sure about Catholics. Orthodox have always struck me as living apart to some extent but I may be wrong and would be interested in hearing from a follower of Orthodoxy.
      - arshneet 7y ago
        I don't know much about Protestants, despite having lived in England for a while. I live in Canada and regularly travel to the US, and still don't know about Protestantism deeply. The little bit I do, has generally led to a positive opinion, as it aligns somewhat more with what I'd believe in.
      - daveFNbuck 7y ago
        There are thousands of protestant sects. Just about any generalization you make about them is going to be wrong. Many of them teach that the secular world is sinful and to be avoided.
        steve19 7y ago
        By far the largest denominations do not teach that. I am sure 0.0001% of the world's 1 billion protostants like the handful of westbro baptists nut cases might believe that. You can find extremists in every religion.
        xtian 7y ago
        They might not teach it but many do practice it in lots of more or less subtle ways.
  - ars 7y ago
    > they discourage retreating from the world and ordinary secular life. I'm not really an expect in this, but https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monasticism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monasticism seems like it's about half the religions that encourage it and half that don't, and some seriously discourage it, like Judaism and Islam.
  - dsfsafasfasf 7y ago
    "but unlike most major religions, they discourage retreating from the world and ordinary secular life." I think that would be a mischaracterization of major religions. For example Christianity has its mystics and ascetics, but they it doesnt preach that all, or even the vast majority should pursue this path. Instead, Christianity teaches that its faithful should take time to retreat and pray, to go back into the world a more faithful servant of God. Even the Saints and ascetics don't retreat from the world but rather seek silence. St. Benedict, the paradigm of the Catholic monk would leave the monastery every month to meet up with his sister.
  - dmos62 7y ago
    The Sikh history provides at least one explanation for this. They're a very new group, formed around the 1600s. For a long time they lived in adverse conditions, at odds with local rulers, disadvantaged by numerical inferiority. Given that monk culture is a form of specialization, similar to how a professional army is a specialization, and that specialization can't appear in adverse, numerically difficult situations, that could explain why Sikhs don't have monkhood, instead preferring rounded jack-of-all-trades social roles. For an opposite extreme, there's The Kingdom of Tibet, which until Chinese occupation had 1/3 of its (male?) population in monastic life. That's extremely special; if only it had lasted.
goldcd 7y ago
Saw a video recently that touched on this topic - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKXf89yNDP4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKXf89yNDP4 Only short and worth the watch.
dhaalsiim 7y ago
good read, i can totally relate on some levels, i used to work at this company which exclusively helped Sikh cdl holders with their tickets and fuel card discounts. Most of them are genuinely living the american dream. Godspeed....Wonder how automation, ai, and self-driving is going to impact this field? .....hopefully everyone has a plan-b...Also i'm curious to find out how electronic logbooks have affected them so far ?
- Mountain_Skies 7y ago
  Years ago I saw statistics for the turnover rate of truck drivers and it was quite high. Seems like there are a small number of drivers who make it a career but most move on to other things after a few years. Haven't seen this come up during discussions about drivers being replaced by autonomous vehicles but it seems rather important. Wonder if turn over numbers are very different for Sikhs.
  - dhaalsiim 7y ago
    while i was working for this xyz CDL marketing company, i did not come across any stats, but i saw fathers passing down the biz to their sons, and/or family members working all together to run their own trucking biz each playing various roles and running it quite efficiently. Since they do not have college degrees they are locked in and thus do successfully make a career of it, additionally some of them don't drink and have good driving records. Also the sikh community inherently feels persecuted wherever they go due to their rigid beliefs, unfortunately this is also true in their homeland-India, but which in turn makes them help each other out even more, their community is well-organized and close-knit. There truly was a constant in-flux of new younger drivers who had plans of a long career. Also, climate change/global warming was also another albatross around their necks...farming and produce are significantly affected each year due to floods an/or droughts
  - a3n 7y ago
    According to some of these articles it's been as high as 130%. https://duckduckgo.com/?q=trucker+turnover&t=fpas&ia=web https://duckduckgo.com/?q=trucker+turnover&t=fpas&ia=web
throwawaysofar 7y ago
I had no idea this was happening; adds some context to this tragedy: https://sports.yahoo.com/know-jaskirat-singh-sidhu-driver-charged-humboldt-broncos-crash-205553464.html https://sports.yahoo.com/know-jaskirat-singh-sidhu-driver-ch...
- addicted 7y ago
  Not really. That’s in Canada. And the Sikh population is highly integrated and successful in the Canadian system. I believe 3 cabinet members in the current Canadian government are Sikh. That’s very different from the status of the Sikh population in the US, so I’m not sure how it adds any context to this article.
throwmex 7y ago
> The drivers, who followed Sikh traditions by wrapping their uncut hair in turbans, said bosses asked them to remove the turbans. Ironically, Quebec has made it a law now. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-laicity-secularism-bill-1.5075547 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-laicity-secul...
- sp332 7y ago
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  - allannienhuis 7y ago
    Not sure how you got that from that link. There's a whole section on different religious associations. It points out that it's a religious requirement for Sikhs - observant baptised Sikhs are required to wear a turban.
- pasdoy 7y ago
  > ban public workers in positions of authority from wearing religious symbols. > public workers
  - j15e 7y ago
    public worker in a position of authority So it applies only to specific subsets of public roles (police, judge, etc). It also applies to teachers, but I am not sure this was a good idea. Switzerland has a similar law too https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/church-and-state_geneva-secularism-law-approved-by-voters/44745698 https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/church-and-state_geneva-secular...
    - brianpgordon 7y ago
      AFAIK the best-known example of this is France. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_law_on_secularity_and_conspicuous_religious_symbols_in_schools https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_law_on_secularity_and_c... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_ban_on_face_covering https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_ban_on_face_covering https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_scarf_controversy_in_France https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_scarf_controversy_in_F... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La%C3%AFcit%C3%A9 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La%C3%AFcit%C3%A9
dhaalsiim 7y ago
Fun Fact: ever wonder why they all share the same last names ? for instance - male last names are always "SINGH" and female last names are always "KAUR"... because their faith is hoping to create an egalitarian society..where SINGH means king/lion and KAUR means princess/queen...i don't know how well that is working out for the whole community?... but i actually do think that is a noble quest.. Source: http://investorfieldguide.com/savneet/ http://investorfieldguide.com/savneet/ (for those interested--fintech podcast listen from 01:09:40)
- zapdrive 7y ago
  It was a noble concept, but everybody fell off the track pretty fast (this concept was started by the last Sikh Guru in 1699, a little over 300 years ago). Nowadays Singh and Kaur is mostly used as a middle name, and everybody has a last name. The last names tell you which "caste" the person is.
- arshneet 7y ago
  This is one of the concepts I like the most personally. The plan was to remove discrimination as the emphasis is on an egalitarian society. It also ensures women don't change their surnames after marriage (if they are practicing Sikhs). The religion is pretty egalitarian in that respect, and there is no role the women can't take up in the religion. Since most of the Sikhs are Punjabis, and Punjabi society still isn't quite feminist, you don't get to see this as much in practice as you should. As in, I don't know of a female Head Granthi in major Gurdwaras. For context, a Granthi is a reader of the religious text, employed by the Gurdwara for daily services. Anyone can read the book though, just to be clear. Some people might use the word priest for Granthi, but that's incorrect because Sikhism doesn't have priests or bishops, as everyone is equal, and positions of power that wield influence aren't supposed to be present, as Sikhism doesn't believe special titles like priests or bishops bestow any special capabilities. I do hope that as the Punjabi society progresses (or we see more people from other ethnicities taking up these roles), we'll see more involvement of women in such roles, as the egalitarian bit and no degradation of women is something I've always liked quite a bit personally.
  - 7y ago
la6470 7y ago
But I think the number of semis on the road have grown exponentially in the last two years. And sometimes they occupy two right lanes and sometimes they dangerously change lanes.
40acres 7y ago
Like truck driving, there are many gaps and shortages in the U.S economy that are prime opportunities for immigrants to fill. Either because a majority in some way stigmatize the work, or the pay is too low, etc. It's sad to see that immigration has become a taboo in certain parts of the country, as not only do immigrants in general contribute greatly to the economy, but they also impact our culture in significant ways. I expect more profiles like this to spring up in the next few years, as America continues to grow with a low "native" birth rate, immigration will fill the void.
- Consultant32452 7y ago
  >Either because a majority in some way stigmatize the work, or the pay is too low, etc. The 'pay is too low' bit always bothers me. It implies that we should want to bring in a serf class to do work Americans won't. It's usually in conjunction with some non-white immigrant group, usually Hispanics, which makes it racist to boot. We must not accept arguments about not being able to find workers because the pay is too low. Raise the pay. The wealth and income gaps are bad enough, don't keep pushing down the median wages by bringing in more serf class workers who are willing to accept these wages.
  - 40acres 7y ago
    In general I agree with you, but I do believe that there are certain jobs that a majority of Americans simply will not consider. While there is definitely some xenophobic reasons behind this, I think the bulk of it can be explained in economics terms. The average American worker is pretty well educated compared to the rest of the world and has a much higher wage ceiling if they are willing to be selective. We do however need more wage growth in this economy and it's good to see the Fed coming to grips with this and retreating from further interest rate increases.
    - thatcat 7y ago
      What jobs will Americans not consider at a reasonable pay rate?
DoreenMichele 7y ago
This was a wonderful read. This article plus some of the comments here make me think of the best homeless meal service in San Diego when I was homeless there. My old homeless blog simply lists them as The Vegans and I think that's how they self identified. My impression was they were some kind of church group, but unlike most church-affiliated homeless services, they never identified their organization that I know of. They served a meal once a week. It was all vegetarian and it was hands down the best free meal I had as a homeless person. They also let you take a couple of sack lunches with vegetarian sandwiches, like peanut butter, plus snacks. Many free meals involve listening to a sermon. A lot of organizations treat homeless people pretty bad while supposedly trying to help them. There was none of the usual crap with this group. They also gave away free clothes or blankets or whatever they had. I wish far more homeless services met a similar standard.
- dmos62 7y ago
  You might be thinking of Langar [0]. It's a practice from Sikhism where "a free meal is served to all the visitors, without distinction of religion, caste, gender, economic status or ethnicity. The free meal is always vegetarian". In many ways, Sikhism is a pretty great culture. One of my dreams is to run a Langar one day. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Langar_(Sikhism) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Langar_(Sikhism)
  - DoreenMichele 7y ago
    This was done on a public sidewalk, not in a building. Other than that, yes, it's possible. That fits. Thank you.
    - arshneet 7y ago
      Langar doesn't have to be in a Gurdwara. The purpose of the meal is to serve food to all (especially the needy), and for even the privileged ones in the society to sit down and have the same food in the same conditions (even the richest person should be in the same queue and have Langar with people from all strata of society) to promote a sense of equality. One of the major Langar charities, The Midland Langar Seva Society (https://www.midlandlangarseva.org/ https://www.midlandlangarseva.org/), does it on the streets, as do many others. The first ever Langar by Guru Nanak (the founder of the religion) was on the street as well. But, it's kind of hard to tell (without more details) whether what you had was langar. And, it doesn't really matter whether it is Langar, because it serves the same purpose, and the people doing that are definitely doing a service to the society the same way. When it comes to using charity as a tool to lure people into some ideology is what puts me off. Ideally, charity should be done to help others, and not for self-promotion or for the promotion of an ideology is what I've learnt as a Sikh, and would like to retain the same belief even if I'm not a Sikh some day.
alistproducer2 7y ago
This was a great read and got me interested in learning more about the Sikh religion. Does anyone have some advice for a westerner interested in starting to learn about the religion?
- mkbkn 7y ago
  There might be something on Youtube.
- emeraldx 7y ago
  I'd recommend finding a local Gurudwara (their place of worship) and visiting there during Langar. Langar is when they offer free meals to all visitors of the temple, no questions asked. People volunteer to cook these meals, serve them to people, doing the dishes etc. I'd recommend first visiting the temple and seeing it yourself.
  - alistproducer2 7y ago
    Thanks for the advice
- arshneet 7y ago
  There is a channel called Basics of Sikhi on Youtube. It was started by a Brit called Jagraj Singh, and it is one of the golden resources to get started. Jagraj is no longer alive and succumbed to cancer, so the channel might not be as active. But, it should still have relevant content, as the age of the content shouldn't really matter.
  - alistproducer2 7y ago
    Thanks
thetruthseeker1 7y ago
I think Sikhs are great, they are hard-working people. But, how are they transforming the trucking industry though? It seems to me that the ethnicity of labor force in this industry has changed like how it has happened in multiple other industries at least in the USA. Earlier in the west coast, the east Asians did construction, now it's Mexicans. It seems like that is what happened in trucking- Sikhs form the labor force now for many reasons, and that is not a new trend. The real transformation is coming soon I think and that will be with self driving trucks.
- kungtotte 7y ago
  Speaking as a truck-driver (not over-the-road, I drive a septic tank truck), I find it shocking that so much is poured into the self-driving movement and not invested into changing the infrastructure to require fewer transports in the first place. Self-driving is a win for corporations in that it saves them money in the long run, and it would offer higher throughput as the trucks could run 24/7 with no need for breaks. Refueling could happen while they're being loaded/unloaded by warehouse personnel, as could general maintenance such as changing tires etc. so you would have a small fleet of truck operating nearly continuously which would be a huge economic win for these companies. But why isn't more money spent trying to change the transportation sector? Why are trucks running across the US instead of high-capacity trains? One train could easily swallow 50 trucks worth of goods if the infrastructure was built to accommodate it. Why are things shipped so far instead of produced and sold more locally? There's capacity to produce food much closer to where people live, so 'fresh' actually means fresh, and it travels at most double-digit miles before it hits the store instead of quadruple-digit miles or more. By all means push for self-driving, but for the environment we need to push for no driving.
  - jjeaff 7y ago
    Lots of goods are shipped via train. It's very cheap. But it is slower, and you still need trucks for last mile delivery... Or in lots of cases, last 100 miles delivery.
    - 7y ago
optimalsolver 7y ago
They offered the world order!
LordAtlas 7y ago
'“This is like home,” says Pal, the name he uses on the road (said like “Paul”).' No, it definitely isn't pronounced like "Paul" (the way Westerners mangle "Nepal".) It's more like "paal" with a soft "l".
RajuVarghese 7y ago
Looking through the discussion here I am thrilled that it is conducted in such a civilized & positive way. No one shouting others down as Nazis. I am inordinately pleased to see that people want to learn and are open-minded enough to realize that distant cultures can have lessons to learn from. I usually lurk in HN but this time I feel obliged to at least say that I appreciate the company around here. Thanks all!
sn41 7y ago
I was driving through Nebraska on the way to Colorado in winter 2009, when behind me from the distance, I saw an 18-wheeler with its hood in the shape of the Tasmanian devil (from Looney Tunes). The truck looked like it was about to gobble up the guy in front. I am Indian, and I thought, wow, this is way too much character for a U. S. truck driver!! Eventually the guy passed me, and I saw that he was a Sikh :)
awalton 7y ago
As an aside to this happening, I'm very excited about the idea of good Indian food making its way throughout the US similar to how Chinese food did before - even if it gets slightly Americanized along the way, I'd be extremely happy if I could go back east to my small town and find a good chicken curry and naan... More on topic, what's probably missing here is context; the Sikh's revolutionized trucking in India by changing the way that trucking worked - shorter runs done by small teams working in shifts nearer to their homes - more like a relay race than a long haul marathon that used to be more common in America (see companies like Rivigo). They've now simply brought that culture to America where trucking is huge and opportunities are practically boundless.

216 points by ssully 7y ago

http://archive.is/Dr07t http://archive.is/Dr07t

Sources of more information. Reddit AMA by one of Sikh drivers here - https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/be99o8/hi_im_satnam_singh_ive_been_trucking_for_25_years/ https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/be99o8/hi_im_satnam_s... Untold America episode here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKXf89yNDP4&list=PLZd3QRtSy5LND882pw870FbVvdeygZ5pa https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKXf89yNDP4&list=PLZd3QRtSy5...

rmbryan 7y ago

I understand reminders as a generalized practice, but this metaphor is one I'll have to meditate on: "Every day, he wears a silver bracelet that symbolizes a handcuff. “Remember, you are handcuffed to God. Remind yourself to not do bad things,” Pal says. It reminds him to be kind in the face of ignorance and hatred."

asark 7y ago
My knowledge of Sikh religion is pretty limited, but as I understand it, they join most other major religions in seeing the world and ordinary, secular life as full of temptation and moral danger... but unlike most major religions, they discourage retreating from the world and ordinary secular life. This is striking since there's so much agreement on retreat-from-the-world being valuable and even laudable in other faiths. Many traditions hold ultimate enlightenment and engagement with the divine as being actually, or at least practically, impossible without it. IOW Sikhs deliberately practice their religion on hard mode. Badass.
- nsenifty 7y ago
  Hinduism calls it Karma yoga[1] - the path of selfless action. It is portrayed in no way inferior to other approaches. Do you work well with passion without attachment towards results. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karma_yoga https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karma_yoga
  - kbenson 7y ago
    > Do you work well with passion without attachment towards results. I assume by "results" you mean recompense or renown, since you mention doing work "well". I only mention it because to me "results" are what I use to define whether my work was done well, and aren't what I think of when considering whether it was materially beneficial for me.
    - ASTP001 7y ago
      I think the key there is "attachment." I think seeing the results without being attached to it can also improve analysis of the outcome with respect to the quality of input if there is less personal/emotional attachment to the work that is being accomplished.
    - fellellor 7y ago
      The idea is to focus on doing your job well and release yourself from the pressure of the side effects, like fame and other things that are expected rewards for a job well done. Getting those rewards might represent their own bit of karma yoga, with separate effort. It is silly to think a divine entity is going to descend from the heavens to ensure that you get your just rewards for doing a good job.
    - rramadass 7y ago
      The idea is to do one's work without emotional attachment to "results". In modern day psychology it is called "self-distancing". It is nothing mystical but commonsense. The way to understand the rationale is; even though "self-effort" has to be put forth towards a goal, because there can be so many other factors involved in deciding the outcome (most important being random chance) that it is best to have no emotional ties to outcomes. That way one does not fall into despair and a negative frame of mind if things turn out wrong but still can choose to experience joy when things turn out well.
- arshneet 7y ago
  I'm a Sikh, and that's very correct. Sikhism discourages living as a recluse or retreating from the world. You are supposed to actively participate in the society, while continuously learning how to become a better person. That's the literal meaning of the word 'Sikh' - a disciple or learner.
  - steve19 7y ago
    Protestant Christianity is the same. It doesn't preach living apart from the world. Not entirely sure about Catholics. Orthodox have always struck me as living apart to some extent but I may be wrong and would be interested in hearing from a follower of Orthodoxy.
    - arshneet 7y ago
      I don't know much about Protestants, despite having lived in England for a while. I live in Canada and regularly travel to the US, and still don't know about Protestantism deeply. The little bit I do, has generally led to a positive opinion, as it aligns somewhat more with what I'd believe in.
    - daveFNbuck 7y ago
      There are thousands of protestant sects. Just about any generalization you make about them is going to be wrong. Many of them teach that the secular world is sinful and to be avoided.
      - steve19 7y ago
        By far the largest denominations do not teach that. I am sure 0.0001% of the world's 1 billion protostants like the handful of westbro baptists nut cases might believe that. You can find extremists in every religion.
        xtian 7y ago
        They might not teach it but many do practice it in lots of more or less subtle ways.
- ars 7y ago
  > they discourage retreating from the world and ordinary secular life. I'm not really an expect in this, but https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monasticism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monasticism seems like it's about half the religions that encourage it and half that don't, and some seriously discourage it, like Judaism and Islam.
- dsfsafasfasf 7y ago
  "but unlike most major religions, they discourage retreating from the world and ordinary secular life." I think that would be a mischaracterization of major religions. For example Christianity has its mystics and ascetics, but they it doesnt preach that all, or even the vast majority should pursue this path. Instead, Christianity teaches that its faithful should take time to retreat and pray, to go back into the world a more faithful servant of God. Even the Saints and ascetics don't retreat from the world but rather seek silence. St. Benedict, the paradigm of the Catholic monk would leave the monastery every month to meet up with his sister.
- dmos62 7y ago
  The Sikh history provides at least one explanation for this. They're a very new group, formed around the 1600s. For a long time they lived in adverse conditions, at odds with local rulers, disadvantaged by numerical inferiority. Given that monk culture is a form of specialization, similar to how a professional army is a specialization, and that specialization can't appear in adverse, numerically difficult situations, that could explain why Sikhs don't have monkhood, instead preferring rounded jack-of-all-trades social roles. For an opposite extreme, there's The Kingdom of Tibet, which until Chinese occupation had 1/3 of its (male?) population in monastic life. That's extremely special; if only it had lasted.

goldcd 7y ago

Saw a video recently that touched on this topic - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKXf89yNDP4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKXf89yNDP4 Only short and worth the watch.

dhaalsiim 7y ago

good read, i can totally relate on some levels, i used to work at this company which exclusively helped Sikh cdl holders with their tickets and fuel card discounts. Most of them are genuinely living the american dream. Godspeed....Wonder how automation, ai, and self-driving is going to impact this field? .....hopefully everyone has a plan-b...Also i'm curious to find out how electronic logbooks have affected them so far ?

Mountain_Skies 7y ago
Years ago I saw statistics for the turnover rate of truck drivers and it was quite high. Seems like there are a small number of drivers who make it a career but most move on to other things after a few years. Haven't seen this come up during discussions about drivers being replaced by autonomous vehicles but it seems rather important. Wonder if turn over numbers are very different for Sikhs.
- dhaalsiim 7y ago
  while i was working for this xyz CDL marketing company, i did not come across any stats, but i saw fathers passing down the biz to their sons, and/or family members working all together to run their own trucking biz each playing various roles and running it quite efficiently. Since they do not have college degrees they are locked in and thus do successfully make a career of it, additionally some of them don't drink and have good driving records. Also the sikh community inherently feels persecuted wherever they go due to their rigid beliefs, unfortunately this is also true in their homeland-India, but which in turn makes them help each other out even more, their community is well-organized and close-knit. There truly was a constant in-flux of new younger drivers who had plans of a long career. Also, climate change/global warming was also another albatross around their necks...farming and produce are significantly affected each year due to floods an/or droughts
- a3n 7y ago
  According to some of these articles it's been as high as 130%. https://duckduckgo.com/?q=trucker+turnover&t=fpas&ia=web https://duckduckgo.com/?q=trucker+turnover&t=fpas&ia=web

throwawaysofar 7y ago

I had no idea this was happening; adds some context to this tragedy: https://sports.yahoo.com/know-jaskirat-singh-sidhu-driver-charged-humboldt-broncos-crash-205553464.html https://sports.yahoo.com/know-jaskirat-singh-sidhu-driver-ch...

addicted 7y ago
Not really. That’s in Canada. And the Sikh population is highly integrated and successful in the Canadian system. I believe 3 cabinet members in the current Canadian government are Sikh. That’s very different from the status of the Sikh population in the US, so I’m not sure how it adds any context to this article.

throwmex 7y ago

> The drivers, who followed Sikh traditions by wrapping their uncut hair in turbans, said bosses asked them to remove the turbans. Ironically, Quebec has made it a law now. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-laicity-secularism-bill-1.5075547 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-laicity-secul...

sp332 7y ago
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- allannienhuis 7y ago
  Not sure how you got that from that link. There's a whole section on different religious associations. It points out that it's a religious requirement for Sikhs - observant baptised Sikhs are required to wear a turban.
pasdoy 7y ago
> ban public workers in positions of authority from wearing religious symbols. > public workers
- j15e 7y ago
  public worker in a position of authority So it applies only to specific subsets of public roles (police, judge, etc). It also applies to teachers, but I am not sure this was a good idea. Switzerland has a similar law too https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/church-and-state_geneva-secularism-law-approved-by-voters/44745698 https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/church-and-state_geneva-secular...
  - brianpgordon 7y ago
    AFAIK the best-known example of this is France. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_law_on_secularity_and_conspicuous_religious_symbols_in_schools https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_law_on_secularity_and_c... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_ban_on_face_covering https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_ban_on_face_covering https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_scarf_controversy_in_France https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_scarf_controversy_in_F... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La%C3%AFcit%C3%A9 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La%C3%AFcit%C3%A9

dhaalsiim 7y ago

Fun Fact: ever wonder why they all share the same last names ? for instance - male last names are always "SINGH" and female last names are always "KAUR"... because their faith is hoping to create an egalitarian society..where SINGH means king/lion and KAUR means princess/queen...i don't know how well that is working out for the whole community?... but i actually do think that is a noble quest.. Source: http://investorfieldguide.com/savneet/ http://investorfieldguide.com/savneet/ (for those interested--fintech podcast listen from 01:09:40)

zapdrive 7y ago
It was a noble concept, but everybody fell off the track pretty fast (this concept was started by the last Sikh Guru in 1699, a little over 300 years ago). Nowadays Singh and Kaur is mostly used as a middle name, and everybody has a last name. The last names tell you which "caste" the person is.
arshneet 7y ago
This is one of the concepts I like the most personally. The plan was to remove discrimination as the emphasis is on an egalitarian society. It also ensures women don't change their surnames after marriage (if they are practicing Sikhs). The religion is pretty egalitarian in that respect, and there is no role the women can't take up in the religion. Since most of the Sikhs are Punjabis, and Punjabi society still isn't quite feminist, you don't get to see this as much in practice as you should. As in, I don't know of a female Head Granthi in major Gurdwaras. For context, a Granthi is a reader of the religious text, employed by the Gurdwara for daily services. Anyone can read the book though, just to be clear. Some people might use the word priest for Granthi, but that's incorrect because Sikhism doesn't have priests or bishops, as everyone is equal, and positions of power that wield influence aren't supposed to be present, as Sikhism doesn't believe special titles like priests or bishops bestow any special capabilities. I do hope that as the Punjabi society progresses (or we see more people from other ethnicities taking up these roles), we'll see more involvement of women in such roles, as the egalitarian bit and no degradation of women is something I've always liked quite a bit personally.
- 7y ago

la6470 7y ago

But I think the number of semis on the road have grown exponentially in the last two years. And sometimes they occupy two right lanes and sometimes they dangerously change lanes.

40acres 7y ago

Like truck driving, there are many gaps and shortages in the U.S economy that are prime opportunities for immigrants to fill. Either because a majority in some way stigmatize the work, or the pay is too low, etc. It's sad to see that immigration has become a taboo in certain parts of the country, as not only do immigrants in general contribute greatly to the economy, but they also impact our culture in significant ways. I expect more profiles like this to spring up in the next few years, as America continues to grow with a low "native" birth rate, immigration will fill the void.

Consultant32452 7y ago
>Either because a majority in some way stigmatize the work, or the pay is too low, etc. The 'pay is too low' bit always bothers me. It implies that we should want to bring in a serf class to do work Americans won't. It's usually in conjunction with some non-white immigrant group, usually Hispanics, which makes it racist to boot. We must not accept arguments about not being able to find workers because the pay is too low. Raise the pay. The wealth and income gaps are bad enough, don't keep pushing down the median wages by bringing in more serf class workers who are willing to accept these wages.
- 40acres 7y ago
  In general I agree with you, but I do believe that there are certain jobs that a majority of Americans simply will not consider. While there is definitely some xenophobic reasons behind this, I think the bulk of it can be explained in economics terms. The average American worker is pretty well educated compared to the rest of the world and has a much higher wage ceiling if they are willing to be selective. We do however need more wage growth in this economy and it's good to see the Fed coming to grips with this and retreating from further interest rate increases.
  - thatcat 7y ago
    What jobs will Americans not consider at a reasonable pay rate?

DoreenMichele 7y ago

This was a wonderful read. This article plus some of the comments here make me think of the best homeless meal service in San Diego when I was homeless there. My old homeless blog simply lists them as The Vegans and I think that's how they self identified. My impression was they were some kind of church group, but unlike most church-affiliated homeless services, they never identified their organization that I know of. They served a meal once a week. It was all vegetarian and it was hands down the best free meal I had as a homeless person. They also let you take a couple of sack lunches with vegetarian sandwiches, like peanut butter, plus snacks. Many free meals involve listening to a sermon. A lot of organizations treat homeless people pretty bad while supposedly trying to help them. There was none of the usual crap with this group. They also gave away free clothes or blankets or whatever they had. I wish far more homeless services met a similar standard.

dmos62 7y ago
You might be thinking of Langar [0]. It's a practice from Sikhism where "a free meal is served to all the visitors, without distinction of religion, caste, gender, economic status or ethnicity. The free meal is always vegetarian". In many ways, Sikhism is a pretty great culture. One of my dreams is to run a Langar one day. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Langar_(Sikhism) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Langar_(Sikhism)
- DoreenMichele 7y ago
  This was done on a public sidewalk, not in a building. Other than that, yes, it's possible. That fits. Thank you.
  - arshneet 7y ago
    Langar doesn't have to be in a Gurdwara. The purpose of the meal is to serve food to all (especially the needy), and for even the privileged ones in the society to sit down and have the same food in the same conditions (even the richest person should be in the same queue and have Langar with people from all strata of society) to promote a sense of equality. One of the major Langar charities, The Midland Langar Seva Society (https://www.midlandlangarseva.org/ https://www.midlandlangarseva.org/), does it on the streets, as do many others. The first ever Langar by Guru Nanak (the founder of the religion) was on the street as well. But, it's kind of hard to tell (without more details) whether what you had was langar. And, it doesn't really matter whether it is Langar, because it serves the same purpose, and the people doing that are definitely doing a service to the society the same way. When it comes to using charity as a tool to lure people into some ideology is what puts me off. Ideally, charity should be done to help others, and not for self-promotion or for the promotion of an ideology is what I've learnt as a Sikh, and would like to retain the same belief even if I'm not a Sikh some day.

alistproducer2 7y ago

This was a great read and got me interested in learning more about the Sikh religion. Does anyone have some advice for a westerner interested in starting to learn about the religion?

mkbkn 7y ago
There might be something on Youtube.
emeraldx 7y ago
I'd recommend finding a local Gurudwara (their place of worship) and visiting there during Langar. Langar is when they offer free meals to all visitors of the temple, no questions asked. People volunteer to cook these meals, serve them to people, doing the dishes etc. I'd recommend first visiting the temple and seeing it yourself.
- alistproducer2 7y ago
  Thanks for the advice
arshneet 7y ago
There is a channel called Basics of Sikhi on Youtube. It was started by a Brit called Jagraj Singh, and it is one of the golden resources to get started. Jagraj is no longer alive and succumbed to cancer, so the channel might not be as active. But, it should still have relevant content, as the age of the content shouldn't really matter.
- alistproducer2 7y ago
  Thanks

thetruthseeker1 7y ago

I think Sikhs are great, they are hard-working people. But, how are they transforming the trucking industry though? It seems to me that the ethnicity of labor force in this industry has changed like how it has happened in multiple other industries at least in the USA. Earlier in the west coast, the east Asians did construction, now it's Mexicans. It seems like that is what happened in trucking- Sikhs form the labor force now for many reasons, and that is not a new trend. The real transformation is coming soon I think and that will be with self driving trucks.

kungtotte 7y ago
Speaking as a truck-driver (not over-the-road, I drive a septic tank truck), I find it shocking that so much is poured into the self-driving movement and not invested into changing the infrastructure to require fewer transports in the first place. Self-driving is a win for corporations in that it saves them money in the long run, and it would offer higher throughput as the trucks could run 24/7 with no need for breaks. Refueling could happen while they're being loaded/unloaded by warehouse personnel, as could general maintenance such as changing tires etc. so you would have a small fleet of truck operating nearly continuously which would be a huge economic win for these companies. But why isn't more money spent trying to change the transportation sector? Why are trucks running across the US instead of high-capacity trains? One train could easily swallow 50 trucks worth of goods if the infrastructure was built to accommodate it. Why are things shipped so far instead of produced and sold more locally? There's capacity to produce food much closer to where people live, so 'fresh' actually means fresh, and it travels at most double-digit miles before it hits the store instead of quadruple-digit miles or more. By all means push for self-driving, but for the environment we need to push for no driving.
- jjeaff 7y ago
  Lots of goods are shipped via train. It's very cheap. But it is slower, and you still need trucks for last mile delivery... Or in lots of cases, last 100 miles delivery.
  - 7y ago

optimalsolver 7y ago

They offered the world order!

LordAtlas 7y ago

'“This is like home,” says Pal, the name he uses on the road (said like “Paul”).' No, it definitely isn't pronounced like "Paul" (the way Westerners mangle "Nepal".) It's more like "paal" with a soft "l".

RajuVarghese 7y ago

Looking through the discussion here I am thrilled that it is conducted in such a civilized & positive way. No one shouting others down as Nazis. I am inordinately pleased to see that people want to learn and are open-minded enough to realize that distant cultures can have lessons to learn from. I usually lurk in HN but this time I feel obliged to at least say that I appreciate the company around here. Thanks all!

sn41 7y ago

I was driving through Nebraska on the way to Colorado in winter 2009, when behind me from the distance, I saw an 18-wheeler with its hood in the shape of the Tasmanian devil (from Looney Tunes). The truck looked like it was about to gobble up the guy in front. I am Indian, and I thought, wow, this is way too much character for a U. S. truck driver!! Eventually the guy passed me, and I saw that he was a Sikh :)

awalton 7y ago

As an aside to this happening, I'm very excited about the idea of good Indian food making its way throughout the US similar to how Chinese food did before - even if it gets slightly Americanized along the way, I'd be extremely happy if I could go back east to my small town and find a good chicken curry and naan... More on topic, what's probably missing here is context; the Sikh's revolutionized trucking in India by changing the way that trucking worked - shorter runs done by small teams working in shifts nearer to their homes - more like a relay race than a long haul marathon that used to be more common in America (see companies like Rivigo). They've now simply brought that culture to America where trucking is huge and opportunities are practically boundless.