6 ms·

Why are hams the closest thing to the equivalent of tech tattle-tales? Any time I see someone doing something neat and legally grey on radio, some ham operator

by tuxxy 7y ago

Why are hams the closest thing to the equivalent of tech tattle-tales? Any time I see someone doing something neat and legally grey on radio, some ham operator has to come in, quote their understanding of the law, and chastise everyone. What's the point? Do they get to feel some sense of authority and privilege that the rest of the nerd world don't for a few minutes? Just let people do cool stuff and don't snitch.

Mountain_Skies 7y ago
The rules are a major part of the exam required to get a license so most hams know them well. The FCC and the ARRL make a big deal out of knowing and following the rules. It's simply part of the culture.
duxup 7y ago
Maybe they care about the law.
throw20102010 7y ago
Hams are continuously fighting to keep their spectrum (and slowly losing it to commercial interests). It is a commonly held belief that unlicensed hackers or hams breaking the law hurts the community’s arguments for keeping their spectrum. So it’s not viewed in the ham community as tattling, but rather self policing. Because if they don’t do it themselves then papa FCC is just going to take away everyone’s toys. Responsible and lawful use of radios is the name of the game. Source: I’m a general class licensed ham.
- vvanders 7y ago
  Yup, similar thing in model rocketry circles for similar reasons.
- someguydave 7y ago
  I’m an extra class and I’ve heard this argument my entire life. I think it’s bunk. If Congress wants to take away anything they don’t need a reason. You know what will make ham radio lose its spectrum? Have zero constituency, which will happen once we have run off anyone who wants to experiment on the edge of what is possible with ham radio.
  - logfromblammo 7y ago
    No users means no one left to object when the band is taken away and given to someone else. I have zero interest in unencrypted over-the-air communications. The Internet can already trivially reach stations all the way out to the antipode of the planet, at any time of day or night, with my choice of public or private messaging. I can't wait until the spectrum-protectionist people die off and yield the bandwidth to the SDR robot builders that can use it for a digital transport layer. Once the technical capabilities surpass the administrative permissions, the fun of hacking anything dies, for exactly the reason mentioned. Rather than the hardware saying "you can't do that", it's some old-guard buttinsky, and when the hacker says "wanna bet?", rather than slowly yielding to relentless experimentation, they make a call or two and then the hacker gets fined or their equipment is seized. When every interesting application I can think of for ham radio has a regulation explicitly saying "no, that's not allowed", people just find another hobby to get into.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
jrockway 7y ago
Because breaking the rules ruins it for everyone. With very little equipment and effort, you can completely shut down portions of the ham band worldwide. A handful of people decide to do this, and the ability is gone for everyone. What little space we do have allocated to us is constantly under attack, because there's always money to be made from selling RF spectrum. If VHF/UHF becomes just a place for computers sending cryptocurrency to each other, eventually the FCC is going to step in and decide "hey, we could be selling this!" Then it's gone forever, and the age of radio experimentation is over. If you want to go interfere with licensed transmissions to protest the FCC, go for it! I hope you enjoy the inside of federal courtrooms, though.
fr0sty 7y ago
Hams care about people following FCC rules in much the same way gun owners care about ATF regulations, or car-club members care about whether modifications are steet-legal (or CA Smog-legal), or DIY forum people care about work being permitted and done to code, etc. etc. Some of it is people being cranky, sure, but breaking the rules and regulations of a federal agency is generally not the best idea even if you don't mean any harm by it.
vitaflo 7y ago
Tattle-tales? These are federal laws, not some personal guidelines we're talking about. Screwing with them not only lands you in trouble but all of ham radio, because the government is always looking for reasons to take away spectrum and sell it to the highest bidder. Radio spectrum is a finite resource, you can't make more of it. So expect hams to be cranky when people are fucking around and trying to ruin it for us. Be thankful you only have to deal with irritated hams and not a team of Verizon lawyers.
- gjs278 7y ago
  yawn. you probably violate hundreds of federal laws. this one is practically unenforceable and I doubt anyone really cares or gets in trouble for it.
- someguydave 7y ago
  Technically CFR Title 47 part 97 are not federal laws but are instead FCC regulations. Consider talking to a lawyer about the difference.

by tuxxy 7y ago

Mountain_Skies 7y ago

The rules are a major part of the exam required to get a license so most hams know them well. The FCC and the ARRL make a big deal out of knowing and following the rules. It's simply part of the culture.

duxup 7y ago

Maybe they care about the law.

throw20102010 7y ago

Hams are continuously fighting to keep their spectrum (and slowly losing it to commercial interests). It is a commonly held belief that unlicensed hackers or hams breaking the law hurts the community’s arguments for keeping their spectrum. So it’s not viewed in the ham community as tattling, but rather self policing. Because if they don’t do it themselves then papa FCC is just going to take away everyone’s toys. Responsible and lawful use of radios is the name of the game. Source: I’m a general class licensed ham.

vvanders 7y ago
Yup, similar thing in model rocketry circles for similar reasons.
someguydave 7y ago
I’m an extra class and I’ve heard this argument my entire life. I think it’s bunk. If Congress wants to take away anything they don’t need a reason. You know what will make ham radio lose its spectrum? Have zero constituency, which will happen once we have run off anyone who wants to experiment on the edge of what is possible with ham radio.
- logfromblammo 7y ago
  No users means no one left to object when the band is taken away and given to someone else. I have zero interest in unencrypted over-the-air communications. The Internet can already trivially reach stations all the way out to the antipode of the planet, at any time of day or night, with my choice of public or private messaging. I can't wait until the spectrum-protectionist people die off and yield the bandwidth to the SDR robot builders that can use it for a digital transport layer. Once the technical capabilities surpass the administrative permissions, the fun of hacking anything dies, for exactly the reason mentioned. Rather than the hardware saying "you can't do that", it's some old-guard buttinsky, and when the hacker says "wanna bet?", rather than slowly yielding to relentless experimentation, they make a call or two and then the hacker gets fined or their equipment is seized. When every interesting application I can think of for ham radio has a regulation explicitly saying "no, that's not allowed", people just find another hobby to get into.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

jrockway 7y ago

Because breaking the rules ruins it for everyone. With very little equipment and effort, you can completely shut down portions of the ham band worldwide. A handful of people decide to do this, and the ability is gone for everyone. What little space we do have allocated to us is constantly under attack, because there's always money to be made from selling RF spectrum. If VHF/UHF becomes just a place for computers sending cryptocurrency to each other, eventually the FCC is going to step in and decide "hey, we could be selling this!" Then it's gone forever, and the age of radio experimentation is over. If you want to go interfere with licensed transmissions to protest the FCC, go for it! I hope you enjoy the inside of federal courtrooms, though.

fr0sty 7y ago

Hams care about people following FCC rules in much the same way gun owners care about ATF regulations, or car-club members care about whether modifications are steet-legal (or CA Smog-legal), or DIY forum people care about work being permitted and done to code, etc. etc. Some of it is people being cranky, sure, but breaking the rules and regulations of a federal agency is generally not the best idea even if you don't mean any harm by it.

vitaflo 7y ago

Tattle-tales? These are federal laws, not some personal guidelines we're talking about. Screwing with them not only lands you in trouble but all of ham radio, because the government is always looking for reasons to take away spectrum and sell it to the highest bidder. Radio spectrum is a finite resource, you can't make more of it. So expect hams to be cranky when people are fucking around and trying to ruin it for us. Be thankful you only have to deal with irritated hams and not a team of Verizon lawyers.

gjs278 7y ago
yawn. you probably violate hundreds of federal laws. this one is practically unenforceable and I doubt anyone really cares or gets in trouble for it.
someguydave 7y ago
Technically CFR Title 47 part 97 are not federal laws but are instead FCC regulations. Consider talking to a lawyer about the difference.