5 ms·

Be careful ignoring those "private" signs though. I ignored such a sign in south Texas, took a dirt road (in a 4x4) that was mapped as a public road (both on pa

Be careful ignoring those "private" signs though. I ignored such a sign in south Texas, took a dirt road (in a 4x4) that was mapped as a public road (both on paper and Google), only to have a rifle shot cross my path about 5 minutes later. Ended up having a fairly civil conversation with the "owner" before turning around, but he was adamant that I was on private property and would not be allowed to continue.

lgunsch 7y ago
That sounds extreme, but does indeed play into the stereotype of a Texas rancher. I'm in Canada, and if you shoot someone on your land who's not threatening you with a weapon - chances are you will go to jail because it's not reasonable force.
- bradstewart 7y ago
  It is certainly a bit extreme. To be fair, it was clearly a warning shot fired a "safe" distance ahead of me. Most of the folks I've met in rural Texas aren't itching to shoot anyone and everyone, but they do value privacy to an extreme and will go to great lengths to protect what is (in their mind) theirs.
cardiffspaceman 7y ago
Curious whether the owner thought that shooting across car hoods was going to get Google to stop routing cars across his land. Did the owner know it was Google's "influence" causing people to trespass? If so had the owner informed Google?
- bradstewart 7y ago
  Google didn't actually route me down this road. I initially found it on a paper map, and I confirmed it's continued existence/public status via Google Maps as my paper map was a few years old. It was ~15 miles shorter than the highway route, but I can't imagine its actually a shorter travel time in anything short of a very well equipped 4x4. I just happen to like dirt roads. I also did not press him for details, so I don't know if this was a recurring issue or not.
- geggam 7y ago
  In Texas the castle doctrine is very much alive. As was stated most folks are very nice but it is within their right to stop that one trespassing driver from ever driving again. Not sure they care about Googles influence at all.
  - alistairSH 7y ago
    Texas Penal code specifically uses the term "habitation", not "property" when discussing the use of deadly force. If some jackass is shooting at strangers who wandered onto his property, he's committing a felony. See Texas Penal Code §9.31 (castle doctrine as it relates to trespass and non-deadly force) and §9.32 (castle doctrine as it relates to habitation and deadly force).
    - geggam 7y ago
      The castle doctrine does apply to living areas. True. There are other codes however allowing for the use of deadly force is also justified in using deadly force if: (1) he reasonably believes that it is necessary to use force to prevent or terminate the trespass; and (2) he reasonably believes deadly force is necessary to prevent the trespasser from committing certain crimes, such as arson, burglary, or robbery. Just stating a word of caution. Life is different than the city and laws vary but landowners have significant rights.
      - shereadsthenews 7y ago
        In the West most "ranchers" are just running herds on BLM leases. It is not "their property" by any definition. By contrast virtually all ranches in Texas are on private holdings.
        geggam 7y ago
        There is also the case of Indian Reservation trespass which brings an entirely different set of police and rules to bear. I live in AZ and am surrounded by reservation or BLM land. There are no clear markers marking the difference.
- HeyLaughingBoy 7y ago
  Does it matter? Ultimately, where the vehicle goes is the driver's responsibility.

lgunsch 7y ago

That sounds extreme, but does indeed play into the stereotype of a Texas rancher. I'm in Canada, and if you shoot someone on your land who's not threatening you with a weapon - chances are you will go to jail because it's not reasonable force.

bradstewart 7y ago
It is certainly a bit extreme. To be fair, it was clearly a warning shot fired a "safe" distance ahead of me. Most of the folks I've met in rural Texas aren't itching to shoot anyone and everyone, but they do value privacy to an extreme and will go to great lengths to protect what is (in their mind) theirs.

cardiffspaceman 7y ago

Curious whether the owner thought that shooting across car hoods was going to get Google to stop routing cars across his land. Did the owner know it was Google's "influence" causing people to trespass? If so had the owner informed Google?

bradstewart 7y ago
Google didn't actually route me down this road. I initially found it on a paper map, and I confirmed it's continued existence/public status via Google Maps as my paper map was a few years old. It was ~15 miles shorter than the highway route, but I can't imagine its actually a shorter travel time in anything short of a very well equipped 4x4. I just happen to like dirt roads. I also did not press him for details, so I don't know if this was a recurring issue or not.
geggam 7y ago
In Texas the castle doctrine is very much alive. As was stated most folks are very nice but it is within their right to stop that one trespassing driver from ever driving again. Not sure they care about Googles influence at all.
- alistairSH 7y ago
  Texas Penal code specifically uses the term "habitation", not "property" when discussing the use of deadly force. If some jackass is shooting at strangers who wandered onto his property, he's committing a felony. See Texas Penal Code §9.31 (castle doctrine as it relates to trespass and non-deadly force) and §9.32 (castle doctrine as it relates to habitation and deadly force).
  - geggam 7y ago
    The castle doctrine does apply to living areas. True. There are other codes however allowing for the use of deadly force is also justified in using deadly force if: (1) he reasonably believes that it is necessary to use force to prevent or terminate the trespass; and (2) he reasonably believes deadly force is necessary to prevent the trespasser from committing certain crimes, such as arson, burglary, or robbery. Just stating a word of caution. Life is different than the city and laws vary but landowners have significant rights.
    - shereadsthenews 7y ago
      In the West most "ranchers" are just running herds on BLM leases. It is not "their property" by any definition. By contrast virtually all ranches in Texas are on private holdings.
      - geggam 7y ago
        There is also the case of Indian Reservation trespass which brings an entirely different set of police and rules to bear. I live in AZ and am surrounded by reservation or BLM land. There are no clear markers marking the difference.
HeyLaughingBoy 7y ago
Does it matter? Ultimately, where the vehicle goes is the driver's responsibility.