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Some ornithologists believe that raven and crows surpass even dolphins and apes in intelligence. While I agree that dolphins and apes are intelligent, from my o

Some ornithologists believe that raven and crows surpass even dolphins and apes in intelligence. While I agree that dolphins and apes are intelligent, from my own observations, I would agree with that bird expert. I've seen ravens and crows do some really amazing things. Scientists think apes, for example, are about as intelligent as toddlers. Ravens are something else entirely. Birds can see the earth's magnetic field and take advantage of it for navigation. Ravens can make tools, toys, and solve more complex problems than apes. All corvids can accurately judge weights by sight, and all of them can remember faces for years. This is why farmers who shoot crows find their house, barn, and family animals harassed from then on. Corvids harbor grudges that other animals do not. And apparently the grudge and memories are passed down to offspring.

madhadron 7y ago
They also communicate knowledge across generations and across flocks. There is a particular mask that corvid researchers at University of Washington used for experiments. It hasn't been used for twenty years. If they bring it out, the flocks still recognize and respond to it, even though the birds who would have seen it are likely dead. Even wilder, birds miles away in the city also respond to it, so the information is being transmitted.
- stirfrykitty 7y ago
  I think we humans don't fully understand just how intelligent animals are. The ability to relay information across town rapidly is but one aspect, and it's fascinating. And they could do this while we were still wearing animal skins and carrying spears.
  - throwanem 7y ago
    Being fair, we could do the same thing, then. I tend to think it's down to the artificial distinction between "Man" and "Nature" that's infested our ways of thinking about the world for the last, oh, several hundred years at least, I suppose. That distinction may not have been invented for the purpose of supporting a sense of superiority, but that's the effect it has had, and I think it's long past time we disposed of it for the useless and actively harmful distortion of perception that it is.
  - jelliclesfarm 7y ago
    There is an Indian treatise in living called Brihat Samhita by Varahamihira. There is an entire chapter on crows and how to find omens from crow calls and determine weather from their flight path. I think humans have been observing crows/corvids for a very long time. I think they turn up in Norse mythology often too.
throwanem 7y ago
Judging by my own experience, they have enough theory of mind to understand apologies, at least to the extent of laying aside a grudge; I offended a family of crows one time, getting too close to a nest and upsetting a fledgling, and after several days of potato-chip offerings close but not too close to where I'd given offense, they stopped giving alarm calls and swooping at me any time I walked out the door of the office where I then worked.
- stirfrykitty 7y ago
  The crows where I live are fond of Cheez-its. They also like peanuts and popcorn (unsalted), but I tend to not feed them too much junk food. I did this to show my children that crows are good birds and will protect the area from bad birds like Purple Martins and Blue Jays, both of which are highly destructive. I'll take the crows as neighbors any day.
  - throwanem 7y ago
    Potato chips wouldn’t have been my first or even my tenth choice, but I only had a breakroom vending machine to work from. It was that or candy bars, really...
    - stirfrykitty 7y ago
      No worries. Chocolate is terrible for animals, particularly dogs and birds. I was shunned for a few weeks by some Marines when stationed in Japan for sticking up for some seagulls. Our barracks was situated along the coast (literally) and there was an elevated seawall that ran for about 5 miles around the base. Marines would purchase Alka-Seltzer tablets by the box and walk along the seawall tossing them into the air where the birds would catch them. About 20 seconds later, the bird would explode from the tablet. I rained verbal hell down on them and was told I was a pussy and all that, but I explained to them they are damaging an ecosystem that is balanced. Typical idiots with no care or knowledge of anything. I earned the name green weenie and tree hugger in the platoon even though I'm neither. I just believe in being a good steward of resources.
jelliclesfarm 7y ago
They also teach their young if someone hurts them. In some parts of the world, a way to keep birds away from orchards is to kill a crow and hang it for the others to see..such a human thing to do. It always reminds me of how they hung Il Duce at the end of WW II and how undignified it was to do that a crow..a creature that is far superior in intelligence. I have always imagined that we have alien intelligence amongst us..two off the top of my head..octopus and mycelium. I have waffled about corvids..is it learned intelligence or is it innate animal/avian intelligence? Which usually makes me wonder about ‘intelligence’. What is the true definition of intelligence? Etc.
- stirfrykitty 7y ago
  Knowledge itself is really not much unless it's applied. Corvids apply their knowledge/intelligence. I'm sure some is innate and some is learned. My children do the same. My youngest son was brainy from day one. There is nothing he cannot solve given the time. My older son is very intelligent as well, but his mind is different. He's more physical in nature and lends his mind to physical pursuits like how to drive a ball farther, stance, wrestling moves, etc. They learn and apply knowledge differently. I'm sure there are corvids for whom cracking nuts themselves is great fun/skill shown, whereas there are some who will use a passing car tire to do the work for them. Some people enjoy working on their own cars while others see it as useless and infuriating. Both types can do the work, one sees it better as simply paying for it. I appeal to Robert Heinlein here. Specialization is for insects. People should be able to do many things well. It just makes you stronger. I remember once in the Corps when we were deploying. A young Marine was laying out all of his gear for inspection, required and permissible personal stuff he believed would aid him. The Gunny walked over and said, "Dude, you are going to kill yourself humping all of this extra crap. You don't need any of it. The more you know, the less you have to carry."

madhadron 7y ago

They also communicate knowledge across generations and across flocks. There is a particular mask that corvid researchers at University of Washington used for experiments. It hasn't been used for twenty years. If they bring it out, the flocks still recognize and respond to it, even though the birds who would have seen it are likely dead. Even wilder, birds miles away in the city also respond to it, so the information is being transmitted.

stirfrykitty 7y ago
I think we humans don't fully understand just how intelligent animals are. The ability to relay information across town rapidly is but one aspect, and it's fascinating. And they could do this while we were still wearing animal skins and carrying spears.
- throwanem 7y ago
  Being fair, we could do the same thing, then. I tend to think it's down to the artificial distinction between "Man" and "Nature" that's infested our ways of thinking about the world for the last, oh, several hundred years at least, I suppose. That distinction may not have been invented for the purpose of supporting a sense of superiority, but that's the effect it has had, and I think it's long past time we disposed of it for the useless and actively harmful distortion of perception that it is.
- jelliclesfarm 7y ago
  There is an Indian treatise in living called Brihat Samhita by Varahamihira. There is an entire chapter on crows and how to find omens from crow calls and determine weather from their flight path. I think humans have been observing crows/corvids for a very long time. I think they turn up in Norse mythology often too.

throwanem 7y ago

Judging by my own experience, they have enough theory of mind to understand apologies, at least to the extent of laying aside a grudge; I offended a family of crows one time, getting too close to a nest and upsetting a fledgling, and after several days of potato-chip offerings close but not too close to where I'd given offense, they stopped giving alarm calls and swooping at me any time I walked out the door of the office where I then worked.

stirfrykitty 7y ago
The crows where I live are fond of Cheez-its. They also like peanuts and popcorn (unsalted), but I tend to not feed them too much junk food. I did this to show my children that crows are good birds and will protect the area from bad birds like Purple Martins and Blue Jays, both of which are highly destructive. I'll take the crows as neighbors any day.
- throwanem 7y ago
  Potato chips wouldn’t have been my first or even my tenth choice, but I only had a breakroom vending machine to work from. It was that or candy bars, really...
  - stirfrykitty 7y ago
    No worries. Chocolate is terrible for animals, particularly dogs and birds. I was shunned for a few weeks by some Marines when stationed in Japan for sticking up for some seagulls. Our barracks was situated along the coast (literally) and there was an elevated seawall that ran for about 5 miles around the base. Marines would purchase Alka-Seltzer tablets by the box and walk along the seawall tossing them into the air where the birds would catch them. About 20 seconds later, the bird would explode from the tablet. I rained verbal hell down on them and was told I was a pussy and all that, but I explained to them they are damaging an ecosystem that is balanced. Typical idiots with no care or knowledge of anything. I earned the name green weenie and tree hugger in the platoon even though I'm neither. I just believe in being a good steward of resources.

jelliclesfarm 7y ago

They also teach their young if someone hurts them. In some parts of the world, a way to keep birds away from orchards is to kill a crow and hang it for the others to see..such a human thing to do. It always reminds me of how they hung Il Duce at the end of WW II and how undignified it was to do that a crow..a creature that is far superior in intelligence. I have always imagined that we have alien intelligence amongst us..two off the top of my head..octopus and mycelium. I have waffled about corvids..is it learned intelligence or is it innate animal/avian intelligence? Which usually makes me wonder about ‘intelligence’. What is the true definition of intelligence? Etc.

stirfrykitty 7y ago
Knowledge itself is really not much unless it's applied. Corvids apply their knowledge/intelligence. I'm sure some is innate and some is learned. My children do the same. My youngest son was brainy from day one. There is nothing he cannot solve given the time. My older son is very intelligent as well, but his mind is different. He's more physical in nature and lends his mind to physical pursuits like how to drive a ball farther, stance, wrestling moves, etc. They learn and apply knowledge differently. I'm sure there are corvids for whom cracking nuts themselves is great fun/skill shown, whereas there are some who will use a passing car tire to do the work for them. Some people enjoy working on their own cars while others see it as useless and infuriating. Both types can do the work, one sees it better as simply paying for it. I appeal to Robert Heinlein here. Specialization is for insects. People should be able to do many things well. It just makes you stronger. I remember once in the Corps when we were deploying. A young Marine was laying out all of his gear for inspection, required and permissible personal stuff he believed would aid him. The Gunny walked over and said, "Dude, you are going to kill yourself humping all of this extra crap. You don't need any of it. The more you know, the less you have to carry."