4 ms·

The problem with such long-term plans is of course that none of the politicians who decided this today will be around in 2050. The most relevant question is: W

by hannob 7y ago

The problem with such long-term plans is of course that none of the politicians who decided this today will be around in 2050. The most relevant question is: What are they going to do in the next 1-2 years to make the first steps? That's far more relevant than any long-term goal.

toyg 7y ago
Few of these politicians will be around next year, even. The PM has resigned already, and chances are that the next PM will end up triggering new elections before the end of the year. The new General Election will likely see a massive shakeup due to the fallout from Brexit. This commitment is not worth the paper it's printed on, sadly.
mytailorisrich 7y ago
2050 is not long term. To reach that goal in time lot of things have to be planned and started right now.
- alecmg 7y ago
  Things have been planned. Coal has almost run out, gas is running out (probably calculation showed it will end by 2050). So why not set a target that no fossil fuel will be burnt (and forget to mention there will be none left to burn)
- freehunter 7y ago
  It's long term when it comes to the service life of a politician. How many currently-serving politicians will still be around in 30 years to take the blame if we miss the targets?
  - mytailorisrich 7y ago
    That's irrelevant and comparing apples and oranges. 30 years is not a long time for such a comprehensive change and it is sensible and needed to have plans and objectives over such timescale. I don't understand the point of trying to create an argument on this. It's quite obvious that this comes along with actions over 1, 2 years and beyond from now. And we see that happening every day. If people think that the goal is achievable within 5 years they do not live in the real world.
    - freehunter 7y ago
      And no one is disagreeing with that. There needs to be intermediary steps between now and 2050. That was the entire question, "what are they doing in the next 1-2 years". Just saying "we'll do it within 30 years" is easy, saying "and here's our year-by-year plan" is a lot harder. If there's not a year-by-year plan, when 30 years is up there's no one left to take the blame if we fail.
    - maccard 7y ago
      Why isn't it a long time? 30 years ago the internet didnt exist, we've gone from making 100 million tonnes of plastic to 400 million tonnes (and 30 years before that, we were making almost 0 plastic). The entire US highway system took 60 years. We've made it to Mars in less than 10 years. After WWII, vast amounts of Western Europe were rebuilt in a decade. The entirety of the UKs coal mining industry was decimated in 5 years. 30 years is an absolute eternity.
      - mytailorisrich 7y ago
        Random statistics do not prove a point. Net zero emissions over the whole of the UK is a very profound change and I am not even sure that the technologies exist today to make it happen sustainably or at all. I think many people really do not realise how profound and far reaching that is, bearing in mind that the aim is not to destroy the country's fabric and economy in the process.
    - NeedMoreTea 7y ago
      There is a plan which, surprisingly perhaps, came before the headlines, and it's pretty well thought out. The cross party Committee on Climate Change has been working on a plan for a few years, see updates here: https://www.theccc.org.uk https://www.theccc.org.uk The 2050 net zero report, was published 6 weeks back: https://www.theccc.org.uk/publication/net-zero-the-uks-contribution-to-stopping-global-warming/ https://www.theccc.org.uk/publication/net-zero-the-uks-contr... Which led to the Chancellor saying pft, too expensive last month, and Theresa "committing" to it this month. Though she immediately backed away from simply adopting the report and muttered something about carbon offsets (avoiding the issue).
NeedMoreTea 7y ago
Theresa has nothing to do having got the boot, so it's her attempt at swan song. The chances of a Johnson government caring about anything other than Brexit are none at all. So real steps will have to wait for the general election... Tories are currently looking at quadrupling the tax on storage batteries, having just about destroyed home solar.
- toyg 7y ago
  > it's her attempt at swan song. Climate change is to UK PMs what Israel/Palestine is to US Presidents: everyone has a wonderful and magical plan to solve it, touted at election time, which will be completely ignored for their entire time in charge, until it pops out again as their "attempted legacy" once they become lame-ducks with no weight whatsoever.
  - NeedMoreTea 7y ago
    Sounds about right, especially the magical! Except Gordon's fuel escalator, which was progressing nicely until it started working. Once there were truck drivers organising go-slows and demos at refineries they ran away from it. Fuel was down around 90p a litre back then IIRC. It did seem to be making the roads a bit quieter...
nicoburns 7y ago
The more pressing problem is that 2050 is probably too late.
rjsw 7y ago
There was an announcement yesterday about a commercial carbon capture scheme [1]. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/jun/27/uks-biggest-carbon-capture-project-is-step-change-on-emissions https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/jun/27/uks-bigg...

by hannob 7y ago

toyg 7y ago

Few of these politicians will be around next year, even. The PM has resigned already, and chances are that the next PM will end up triggering new elections before the end of the year. The new General Election will likely see a massive shakeup due to the fallout from Brexit. This commitment is not worth the paper it's printed on, sadly.

mytailorisrich 7y ago

2050 is not long term. To reach that goal in time lot of things have to be planned and started right now.

alecmg 7y ago
Things have been planned. Coal has almost run out, gas is running out (probably calculation showed it will end by 2050). So why not set a target that no fossil fuel will be burnt (and forget to mention there will be none left to burn)
freehunter 7y ago
It's long term when it comes to the service life of a politician. How many currently-serving politicians will still be around in 30 years to take the blame if we miss the targets?
- mytailorisrich 7y ago
  That's irrelevant and comparing apples and oranges. 30 years is not a long time for such a comprehensive change and it is sensible and needed to have plans and objectives over such timescale. I don't understand the point of trying to create an argument on this. It's quite obvious that this comes along with actions over 1, 2 years and beyond from now. And we see that happening every day. If people think that the goal is achievable within 5 years they do not live in the real world.
  - freehunter 7y ago
    And no one is disagreeing with that. There needs to be intermediary steps between now and 2050. That was the entire question, "what are they doing in the next 1-2 years". Just saying "we'll do it within 30 years" is easy, saying "and here's our year-by-year plan" is a lot harder. If there's not a year-by-year plan, when 30 years is up there's no one left to take the blame if we fail.
  - maccard 7y ago
    Why isn't it a long time? 30 years ago the internet didnt exist, we've gone from making 100 million tonnes of plastic to 400 million tonnes (and 30 years before that, we were making almost 0 plastic). The entire US highway system took 60 years. We've made it to Mars in less than 10 years. After WWII, vast amounts of Western Europe were rebuilt in a decade. The entirety of the UKs coal mining industry was decimated in 5 years. 30 years is an absolute eternity.
    - mytailorisrich 7y ago
      Random statistics do not prove a point. Net zero emissions over the whole of the UK is a very profound change and I am not even sure that the technologies exist today to make it happen sustainably or at all. I think many people really do not realise how profound and far reaching that is, bearing in mind that the aim is not to destroy the country's fabric and economy in the process.
  - NeedMoreTea 7y ago
    There is a plan which, surprisingly perhaps, came before the headlines, and it's pretty well thought out. The cross party Committee on Climate Change has been working on a plan for a few years, see updates here: https://www.theccc.org.uk https://www.theccc.org.uk The 2050 net zero report, was published 6 weeks back: https://www.theccc.org.uk/publication/net-zero-the-uks-contribution-to-stopping-global-warming/ https://www.theccc.org.uk/publication/net-zero-the-uks-contr... Which led to the Chancellor saying pft, too expensive last month, and Theresa "committing" to it this month. Though she immediately backed away from simply adopting the report and muttered something about carbon offsets (avoiding the issue).

NeedMoreTea 7y ago

Theresa has nothing to do having got the boot, so it's her attempt at swan song. The chances of a Johnson government caring about anything other than Brexit are none at all. So real steps will have to wait for the general election... Tories are currently looking at quadrupling the tax on storage batteries, having just about destroyed home solar.

toyg 7y ago
> it's her attempt at swan song. Climate change is to UK PMs what Israel/Palestine is to US Presidents: everyone has a wonderful and magical plan to solve it, touted at election time, which will be completely ignored for their entire time in charge, until it pops out again as their "attempted legacy" once they become lame-ducks with no weight whatsoever.
- NeedMoreTea 7y ago
  Sounds about right, especially the magical! Except Gordon's fuel escalator, which was progressing nicely until it started working. Once there were truck drivers organising go-slows and demos at refineries they ran away from it. Fuel was down around 90p a litre back then IIRC. It did seem to be making the roads a bit quieter...

nicoburns 7y ago

The more pressing problem is that 2050 is probably too late.

rjsw 7y ago

There was an announcement yesterday about a commercial carbon capture scheme [1]. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/jun/27/uks-biggest-carbon-capture-project-is-step-change-on-emissions https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/jun/27/uks-bigg...