5 ms·

Well, real-time 4kp60 HEVC encoding is a reality since 2014 https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20140904005279/en https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/2014

by p0nce 7y ago

Well, real-time 4kp60 HEVC encoding is a reality since 2014 https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20140904005279/en https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20140904005279/en Since that time HEVC encoding has only become faster and less expensive. This real-time AV1 encoder achieves 1080p30, which is simply speaking 8 times less pixels than that 2014 demo. And compares against H.264 which says it all.

clouddrover 7y ago
> And compares against H.264 which says it all They compared against HEVC as well. To quote the article: "This means that we can substantially raise quality, while saving bits, all with a very usable CPU footprint. We have found that the real-world compression/speed trade-offs for AV1 are in fact excellent, and better than HEVC." And the business problem with HEVC is: "HEVC (aka H.265) comes with unacceptable patent cost, risk and uncertainty."
- p0nce 7y ago
  It hasn't stopped HEVC from winning https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgE8-4rcXl0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgE8-4rcXl0
  - clouddrover 7y ago
    What do you believe HEVC is winning? The major online video platforms (YouTube, Vimeo, Netflix, Twitch, etc.) are all going to AV1. HEVC had its shot but the terrible licensing stunted its growth and AV1 will replace it. Leonardo Chiariglione says the MPEG business model is broken and I think he's right: http://blog.chiariglione.org/a-crisis-the-causes-and-a-solution/ http://blog.chiariglione.org/a-crisis-the-causes-and-a-solut...
    - p0nce 7y ago
      Leonardo Chiariglione also said "AOM will certainly give much needed stability to the video codec market but this will come at the cost of reduced if not entirely halted technical progress. " which is a very real concern. (a bit tired arguing with people defending Google's contraption vs a codec with innovation from dozens of companies)
      - metildaa 7y ago
        AV1 is not jut Google's child, but rather Amazon, Cisco, Google, Intel, Microsoft, Mozilla and Netflix's collaboration to create a standard that isn't beholden to MPEG-LA: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AV1 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AV1
        p0nce 7y ago
        And who has paid the programmers on payroll on aomenc?
      - clouddrover 7y ago
        > which is a very real concern. It isn't. Innovation in video coding is driven by the need to achieve the same image quality in fewer bits for easier and cheaper distribution. All video platforms, providers, and users have a stake in achieving that improvement. Video coding is not finished yet. There's still more to do and there will be an AV2 eventually.
        p0nce 7y ago
        I see. You know better than the MPEG chairman. Good to know, I can retire from that debate.
  - ZeroGravitas 7y ago
    That's an interesting video, which part did you intend to support your HEVC winning claim? Not the bit when he says AV1 looks much better than x265 (which he started and led development on) I guess.
    - p0nce 7y ago
      > which part did you intend to support your HEVC winning claim? I suggest you see the whole video.
      - ZeroGravitas 7y ago
        I did, that's why I was a little confused by your summary. It was a lot more nuanced than I was expecting. I enjoyed the bit when he flashed up the logos of Netflix, Amazon, Vimeo, Microsoft and other AOM members as showing strong support for HEVC from streaming platforms. And the bit when he said that support by AOM member Apple was really key to HEVC success in America. Or that AOM member Samsung was putting HEVC in TVs. The guy seems smart and informed, but the video had a lot of dramatic irony since many of the corporate big guns he uses to quantify HEVC success seem to be more and more vocal about their dissatisfaction with HEVC and plans to ditch it for AV1 as soon as possible, which is a phyrric kind of victory.
        p0nce 7y ago
        > many of the corporate big guns he uses to quantify HEVC success seem to be more and more vocal about their dissatisfaction with HEVC and plans to ditch it for AV1 as soon as possible Do you have any source on this?
xigency 7y ago
Version 1 of HEVC was approved in 2013. Version 1 of AV1 was approved in 2018. So if realtime encoding for HEVC appeared in 2014 and we are in 2019, then it seems like the technical progress is on par.
- p0nce 7y ago
  That's for 4kp60, 1080p30 HEVC encoding was at IBC 2013. And there were more encoder projects. MPEG codecs create a lot of interest.
ZeroGravitas 7y ago
That's a Xilinx based FPGA encoder, which is a different thing from a software encoder using 1 core. One of the other talks at the event where this was announced was by NGCodec who where showing off their Xilinx based AV1 encoder, though I believe it's intra only at the moment.
slimscsi 7y ago
“Less expensive” only if you don’t count the license cost, which is still unknown in HEVC.

by p0nce 7y ago

clouddrover 7y ago

> And compares against H.264 which says it all They compared against HEVC as well. To quote the article: "This means that we can substantially raise quality, while saving bits, all with a very usable CPU footprint. We have found that the real-world compression/speed trade-offs for AV1 are in fact excellent, and better than HEVC." And the business problem with HEVC is: "HEVC (aka H.265) comes with unacceptable patent cost, risk and uncertainty."

p0nce 7y ago
It hasn't stopped HEVC from winning https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgE8-4rcXl0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgE8-4rcXl0
- clouddrover 7y ago
  What do you believe HEVC is winning? The major online video platforms (YouTube, Vimeo, Netflix, Twitch, etc.) are all going to AV1. HEVC had its shot but the terrible licensing stunted its growth and AV1 will replace it. Leonardo Chiariglione says the MPEG business model is broken and I think he's right: http://blog.chiariglione.org/a-crisis-the-causes-and-a-solution/ http://blog.chiariglione.org/a-crisis-the-causes-and-a-solut...
  - p0nce 7y ago
    Leonardo Chiariglione also said "AOM will certainly give much needed stability to the video codec market but this will come at the cost of reduced if not entirely halted technical progress. " which is a very real concern. (a bit tired arguing with people defending Google's contraption vs a codec with innovation from dozens of companies)
    - metildaa 7y ago
      AV1 is not jut Google's child, but rather Amazon, Cisco, Google, Intel, Microsoft, Mozilla and Netflix's collaboration to create a standard that isn't beholden to MPEG-LA: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AV1 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AV1
      - p0nce 7y ago
        And who has paid the programmers on payroll on aomenc?
    - clouddrover 7y ago
      > which is a very real concern. It isn't. Innovation in video coding is driven by the need to achieve the same image quality in fewer bits for easier and cheaper distribution. All video platforms, providers, and users have a stake in achieving that improvement. Video coding is not finished yet. There's still more to do and there will be an AV2 eventually.
      - p0nce 7y ago
        I see. You know better than the MPEG chairman. Good to know, I can retire from that debate.
- ZeroGravitas 7y ago
  That's an interesting video, which part did you intend to support your HEVC winning claim? Not the bit when he says AV1 looks much better than x265 (which he started and led development on) I guess.
  - p0nce 7y ago
    > which part did you intend to support your HEVC winning claim? I suggest you see the whole video.
    - ZeroGravitas 7y ago
      I did, that's why I was a little confused by your summary. It was a lot more nuanced than I was expecting. I enjoyed the bit when he flashed up the logos of Netflix, Amazon, Vimeo, Microsoft and other AOM members as showing strong support for HEVC from streaming platforms. And the bit when he said that support by AOM member Apple was really key to HEVC success in America. Or that AOM member Samsung was putting HEVC in TVs. The guy seems smart and informed, but the video had a lot of dramatic irony since many of the corporate big guns he uses to quantify HEVC success seem to be more and more vocal about their dissatisfaction with HEVC and plans to ditch it for AV1 as soon as possible, which is a phyrric kind of victory.
      - p0nce 7y ago
        > many of the corporate big guns he uses to quantify HEVC success seem to be more and more vocal about their dissatisfaction with HEVC and plans to ditch it for AV1 as soon as possible Do you have any source on this?

xigency 7y ago

Version 1 of HEVC was approved in 2013. Version 1 of AV1 was approved in 2018. So if realtime encoding for HEVC appeared in 2014 and we are in 2019, then it seems like the technical progress is on par.

p0nce 7y ago
That's for 4kp60, 1080p30 HEVC encoding was at IBC 2013. And there were more encoder projects. MPEG codecs create a lot of interest.

ZeroGravitas 7y ago

That's a Xilinx based FPGA encoder, which is a different thing from a software encoder using 1 core. One of the other talks at the event where this was announced was by NGCodec who where showing off their Xilinx based AV1 encoder, though I believe it's intra only at the moment.

slimscsi 7y ago

“Less expensive” only if you don’t count the license cost, which is still unknown in HEVC.