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There is also an older study from February with similar results: Romana Gruber, Martina Schiestl, Markus Boeckle, Anna Frohnwieser, Rachael Miller: New Caledon
by Tepix 7y ago
There is also an older study from February with similar results:
Romana Gruber, Martina Schiestl, Markus Boeckle, Anna Frohnwieser, Rachael Miller: New Caledonian Crows Use Mental Representations to Solve Metatool Problems. In: Current Biology. February 2019, doi:10.1016/j.cub.2019.01.008
One of its highlights:
- Crows can preplan three behaviors into the future while using tools
Evolution is fascinating. I wonder if there's another possible outcome where these intelligent birds evolve into a species that is capable of using technology like we are today. Perhaps after mankind wipes itself out?
- gameswithgo 7y agoThere is a book, Children of Time, I caution that it isn't actually a good book, its a bit ridiculous, but it was fun to explore what an earth-like planet would be like if spiders became the sentient species.
- NeedMoreTea 7y agoIt's not that bad, it won an Arthur C Clarke award. Though I similarly thought it a bit ridiculous, that was actually more from the human elements of the plot than the spiders or ants. Spiders who'd just launched their sputnik. Overall I thought it a pretty good attempt with an unusual take, and worth reading.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y agoI don't know how either of you could consider Children of Time to be poorly written, I recall it being quite good.
- NeedMoreTea 7y agoWas I damning too much by feint praise? I thought I agreed it was pretty good. Just some of the human plot stretched a bit far to the ridiculous. The spider eye view of the world and technology, and their take on religion was fun, and well done. Much better than a couple of books by far more acclaimed authors I've read recently, for instance. I'm British, we're fed sarcasm and understatement from birth. :)
- monk_the_dog 7y agoThanks for giving me an excuse to recommend "A Deepness in the Sky", by far my favorite science fiction book with a planet of sentient spiders. It's the second in a series, but the first two book can be read out of order. https://www.amazon.com/Deepness-Sky-Zones-Thought/dp/0812536355/ https://www.amazon.com/Deepness-Sky-Zones-Thought/dp/0812536... (The first book is good too; The third one was OK, but not as great as the first two.)
- dwaltrip 7y agoI second this recommendation. Really great book.
- ajuc 7y agoIt's much more likely that mankind wipes ravens than itself.
- maskros 7y agoThere are several other intelligent and adaptable corvid species that would be a lot harder for man to wipe out: carrion crows, hooded crows, rooks, and jackdaws all thrive near human societies.
- stirfrykitty 7y agoI've had an interest in crows and ravens for years. Most corvid researchers agree that ravens top the list in intelligence due to their larger brains. Crows tend to squabble over resources whilst ravens tend to be loners (mating pairs hang out for life). Magpies are also very high on the intelligence scale, as they are also corvids. Ravens have shown extreme intelligence in solving issues on how to open containers, defeat barriers to a food source (greenhouses), windows, etc. Ravens have been observed "timing" windows opening/closing to source food behind glass. Ravens make toys from pine cones, bottle caps, twigs, and play with them with other ravens. They also use ant piles to roll around in, allowing the formic acid from the ants to cover them, giving them a barrier to mites and other bad hosts (called "anting").
- tialaramex 7y agoTwo things I like that corvids do, demonstrating intelligence but most importantly demonstrating _our_ type of intelligence rather than the more alien intelligence of something like an octopus: 1. Messing about, e.g. young bird finds an object which slides on an ice-covered roof. Hops on, rides the object down, and then crucially, it picks the object up and flies to the top to do it again. What for? Not for anything, this is clearly fun to do. 2. Tormenting small dogs. Small "yappy" dogs are awful. I'd feel bad about tormenting one though. But crows don't feel bad, good for them. Dogs are often left on a lead tied to something, the lead has a specific length and a crow can see that this limits the dog's reach, so it will taunt the dog or even attack it, then fly just barely out of reach, knowing the lead will restrain the dog to its further annoyance.
- wil421 7y agoYou need hands and thumbs to manipulate the environment. Or maybe it would work if you’re an octopus but I don’t think they live long enough. Birds would need to give up flight and have stronger bones.
- dorfsmay 7y agoI think the ability to transmit complex information, like talking, is more important than thumb. Other animals have the equivalent of thumbs and have not created technology.
- madhadron 7y agoZygodactyl birds like parrots do quite well with a claw and their beak, both of which are opposable. Ravens and crows mostly just use their beak, which also works quite well based on watching them out my window.
- jelliclesfarm 7y agoCrows are passerine. If they perch on a branch..their feet automatically clamp making them ‘glued’ to the branch..I don’t know how that ties in..but I have always wondered why they evolved like that..