7 ms·

Well, given that many of the readers of this forum, including myself, never went to college yet manage to pull down a healthy six figure salary, I think the act

by pault 7y ago

Well, given that many of the readers of this forum, including myself, never went to college yet manage to pull down a healthy six figure salary, I think the actual situation is a bit more nuanced. Developers making a cushy living are firmly within what used to be considered the middle class, and if you take into account the stagnation of wage growth over the last 40 years we're all getting fucked. Also, many white collar office jobs are paying relatively poorly these days, and those are more likely to require a degree than a job in tech. A $50k salary in 2019 isn't what it used to be.

chrisco255 7y ago
Devs making more than six figures anywhere but the bay area and perhaps NYC are upper middle class, probably in the top 10% of earners in their area, may even qualify as wealthy.
- tjr225 7y ago
  This is changing rapidly as housing costs skyrocket in anywhere remotely urban.
- pault 7y ago
  Technically yes, although as a specific example $100k/yr is the 80th percentile in Austin, TX[0]. My point was, if you define middle class as the middle of the income distribution, yes; if you define middle class more subjectively, like "being able to afford a house in the suburbs and pay for 2.5 college tuitions", that privilege is now out of reach for pretty much everyone except the 80th percentile and up. [0] https://statisticalatlas.com/place/Texas/Austin/Household-Income https://statisticalatlas.com/place/Texas/Austin/Household-In...
  - learc83 7y ago
    >Technically yes, although as a specific example $100k/yr is the 80th percentile in Austin, TX You're comparing household income to individual income. If you look at individual income, $100k/yr in Austin is much going to be much higher than 80th percentile.
  - yakshaving_jgt 7y ago
    Nitpick: When people talk in terms of class, that traditionally encompassed far more than monetary wealth. It's also your education, your status, your social circle, your distance from aristocracy, etc.
  - ovi256 7y ago
    >you define middle class as the middle of the income distribution I don't think that's a good definition for the middle class. There's strong support for the fact that income distribution is an exponential distributions - just google "income distribution exponential". A exponential distribution is not symmetrical, so its mean or median is not a great centrality measure, it does agree with intuitions developed from observing, say, a normal distribution (like the weight or height of persons). The mean or median are very far from the mode (the most frequent individual) in an exponential, whereas they're almost identical in a normal.
- pascalxus 7y ago
  Top 20% is the new middle class in CA and other housing regulated markets

by pault 7y ago

chrisco255 7y ago

Devs making more than six figures anywhere but the bay area and perhaps NYC are upper middle class, probably in the top 10% of earners in their area, may even qualify as wealthy.

tjr225 7y ago
This is changing rapidly as housing costs skyrocket in anywhere remotely urban.
pault 7y ago
Technically yes, although as a specific example $100k/yr is the 80th percentile in Austin, TX[0]. My point was, if you define middle class as the middle of the income distribution, yes; if you define middle class more subjectively, like "being able to afford a house in the suburbs and pay for 2.5 college tuitions", that privilege is now out of reach for pretty much everyone except the 80th percentile and up. [0] https://statisticalatlas.com/place/Texas/Austin/Household-Income https://statisticalatlas.com/place/Texas/Austin/Household-In...
- learc83 7y ago
  >Technically yes, although as a specific example $100k/yr is the 80th percentile in Austin, TX You're comparing household income to individual income. If you look at individual income, $100k/yr in Austin is much going to be much higher than 80th percentile.
- yakshaving_jgt 7y ago
  Nitpick: When people talk in terms of class, that traditionally encompassed far more than monetary wealth. It's also your education, your status, your social circle, your distance from aristocracy, etc.
- ovi256 7y ago
  >you define middle class as the middle of the income distribution I don't think that's a good definition for the middle class. There's strong support for the fact that income distribution is an exponential distributions - just google "income distribution exponential". A exponential distribution is not symmetrical, so its mean or median is not a great centrality measure, it does agree with intuitions developed from observing, say, a normal distribution (like the weight or height of persons). The mean or median are very far from the mode (the most frequent individual) in an exponential, whereas they're almost identical in a normal.
pascalxus 7y ago
Top 20% is the new middle class in CA and other housing regulated markets