4 ms·

The same reason if I go to a stranger's house and start debating with them about my own political opinions they are free to kick me out. Free enterprise and pr

The same reason if I go to a stranger's house and start debating with them about my own political opinions they are free to kick me out. Free enterprise and private property are generally considered fundaments of modern civil society. Im all ears if you have an argument to the contrary.

leereeves 7y ago
We're not talking about people's houses. In the context of business, California has already made that argument for me, making it illegal to discriminate based on political views.
- ssalazar 7y ago
  > We're not talking about people's houses. I'm talking about private property and the right to do with it as one pleases so long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of others. When a group of people create a business this doesn't magically go away. > In the context of business, California has already made that argument for me, making it illegal to discriminate based on political views. Certain protected classes are legally protected from discrimination, yes. To my knowledge "advocating violence" is not a political view; this is what the r/The_Donald is being quarantined for.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - leereeves 7y ago
    Here's the original story accusing TD of advocating violence: https://www.mediamatters.org/research/2019/06/24/A-pro-Trump-subreddit-is-full-of-calls-for-violence-in-support-of-Oregon-Republicans/224018 https://www.mediamatters.org/research/2019/06/24/A-pro-Trump... Featuring comments with as few as 1 point. Those are just an excuse to further restrict a community they've restricted several times in the past, without admitting it's for political reasons.
    - bduerst 7y ago
      Okay, you've signalled that they do do it, but now there are not enough points of data. How many points of data is your burden of proof, before you agree?
      - leereeves 7y ago
        "They"? Those are comments from a few fringe users, buried so deep that most people never saw them. Is that a reason to punish a community of hundreds of thousands of people? That's like quarantining an entire city because a few people there are violent. That's not a good solution in the real world or online.
        bduerst 7y ago
        So is the burden of proof that the people commenting about inciting violence have to be "main" users before it's a problem? What's your criteria for that? You're being pretty slippery right now by dodging questions.
        leereeves 7y ago
        I'd say handle it like we handle crime in the real world. Punish the offender, not the community. Now will you answer a similar question? I spent a couple minutes looking through a single post on r/politics and found a couple of violent comments: > Just do a 180 turn on gun reforms. They’ll take an armed population more seriously. https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/c5og99/there_are_people_in_concentration_camps_why_arent/es387hw/ https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/c5og99/there_are_... > It's because protests don't achieve anything. ... Riots on the other hand... https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/c5og99/there_are_people_in_concentration_camps_why_arent/es397lg/ https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/c5og99/there_are_... Do you think r/politics should be quarantined because of those two posts? Unless that was an extremely unusual post, there are undoubtedly many more. How many more would make you want a quarantine?
        7y ago
- otterley 7y ago
  That's not entirely correct. California makes it illegal for an _employer_ to discriminate against an _employee_ based on their political views. It does not make it illegal for businesses to discriminate against _customers_ based on their political views.
xyzzyz 7y ago
Companies are not free to choose with whom they do business. There are many constraints, not the least of which is it being illegal to refuse to do business with someone because of their race, sex, sexual orientation, and, in California, political opinions. Free enterprise and private property might have been fundamentals of civil society in the past, but that ship has long sailed since then.
- ssalazar 7y ago
  > Companies are not free to choose with whom they do business. For the most part, yes they are. For instance, every online business has a Terms of Service detailing many situations in which they will or will not do business with you. Race, gender, sexual orientation, disability, age, etc. are specific situations in which governments/society have decided that its worth restricting this freedom for the greater good. The existence of these relatively few exceptions does not negate their overall freedom to do business with whomever they please.
- root_axis 7y ago
  The quarantine isn't based off of political orientation though, otherwise r/republican and r/conservative would also be quarantined.
  - leereeves 7y ago
    Allegedly it's based off a few fringe comments that Media Matters found, with mostly single digit points: https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/c5sbpm/reddit_quarantines_us_claiming_we_threaten/ https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/c5sbpm/reddit_q... Those aren't representative of the sub. What's the real reason?
    - root_axis 7y ago
      I don't think anyone has a scientific answer on what is "representative" of the sub besides it's clear support for the president, but honestly it doesn't seem out of line with my experiences of the_donald.

leereeves 7y ago

We're not talking about people's houses. In the context of business, California has already made that argument for me, making it illegal to discriminate based on political views.

ssalazar 7y ago
> We're not talking about people's houses. I'm talking about private property and the right to do with it as one pleases so long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of others. When a group of people create a business this doesn't magically go away. > In the context of business, California has already made that argument for me, making it illegal to discriminate based on political views. Certain protected classes are legally protected from discrimination, yes. To my knowledge "advocating violence" is not a political view; this is what the r/The_Donald is being quarantined for.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- leereeves 7y ago
  Here's the original story accusing TD of advocating violence: https://www.mediamatters.org/research/2019/06/24/A-pro-Trump-subreddit-is-full-of-calls-for-violence-in-support-of-Oregon-Republicans/224018 https://www.mediamatters.org/research/2019/06/24/A-pro-Trump... Featuring comments with as few as 1 point. Those are just an excuse to further restrict a community they've restricted several times in the past, without admitting it's for political reasons.
  - bduerst 7y ago
    Okay, you've signalled that they do do it, but now there are not enough points of data. How many points of data is your burden of proof, before you agree?
    - leereeves 7y ago
      "They"? Those are comments from a few fringe users, buried so deep that most people never saw them. Is that a reason to punish a community of hundreds of thousands of people? That's like quarantining an entire city because a few people there are violent. That's not a good solution in the real world or online.
      - bduerst 7y ago
        So is the burden of proof that the people commenting about inciting violence have to be "main" users before it's a problem? What's your criteria for that? You're being pretty slippery right now by dodging questions.
        leereeves 7y ago
        I'd say handle it like we handle crime in the real world. Punish the offender, not the community. Now will you answer a similar question? I spent a couple minutes looking through a single post on r/politics and found a couple of violent comments: > Just do a 180 turn on gun reforms. They’ll take an armed population more seriously. https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/c5og99/there_are_people_in_concentration_camps_why_arent/es387hw/ https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/c5og99/there_are_... > It's because protests don't achieve anything. ... Riots on the other hand... https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/c5og99/there_are_people_in_concentration_camps_why_arent/es397lg/ https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/c5og99/there_are_... Do you think r/politics should be quarantined because of those two posts? Unless that was an extremely unusual post, there are undoubtedly many more. How many more would make you want a quarantine?
        7y ago
otterley 7y ago
That's not entirely correct. California makes it illegal for an _employer_ to discriminate against an _employee_ based on their political views. It does not make it illegal for businesses to discriminate against _customers_ based on their political views.

xyzzyz 7y ago

Companies are not free to choose with whom they do business. There are many constraints, not the least of which is it being illegal to refuse to do business with someone because of their race, sex, sexual orientation, and, in California, political opinions. Free enterprise and private property might have been fundamentals of civil society in the past, but that ship has long sailed since then.

ssalazar 7y ago
> Companies are not free to choose with whom they do business. For the most part, yes they are. For instance, every online business has a Terms of Service detailing many situations in which they will or will not do business with you. Race, gender, sexual orientation, disability, age, etc. are specific situations in which governments/society have decided that its worth restricting this freedom for the greater good. The existence of these relatively few exceptions does not negate their overall freedom to do business with whomever they please.
root_axis 7y ago
The quarantine isn't based off of political orientation though, otherwise r/republican and r/conservative would also be quarantined.
- leereeves 7y ago
  Allegedly it's based off a few fringe comments that Media Matters found, with mostly single digit points: https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/c5sbpm/reddit_quarantines_us_claiming_we_threaten/ https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/c5sbpm/reddit_q... Those aren't representative of the sub. What's the real reason?
  - root_axis 7y ago
    I don't think anyone has a scientific answer on what is "representative" of the sub besides it's clear support for the president, but honestly it doesn't seem out of line with my experiences of the_donald.