4 ms·

Anything pro right is a headache while extreme left (aka AOC) is Jesus' gift to the world!

product50 7y ago
And Hacker News is a terrible sub to discuss this. Most tech workers tilt far-left - so likely any discussion here talking about neutrality will elicit downvotes and hatred. But here is the thing though. While reddit owners and hacker news represent one worldview which aligns left, the reality is that a large part of America, who stay quiet and are not active, tilts right. And by banning subreddits and downvoting anything which attacks left, we just create an environment where discourse is prevented - but the feeling is not.
- buboard 7y ago
  i actively flag all political posts here. this is clearly not a place to have a sane political discussion .
- brighter2morrow 7y ago
  Where did you get the idea most coders tilt far-left?
- kjsbfkjbf 7y ago
  HackerNews is at best center-left. Maybe not that. The world extends beyond America where being on the "left" involves drone bombing.
  - buboard 7y ago
    the issue is the militancy, not the particular orientation.
- phailhaus 7y ago
  It is disingenuous to suggest that these subreddits are being banned simply because they "attack the left". T_D was banned because of a consistent pattern of rhetoric that violates Reddit's ToS, the most recent cases being outright calling for taking up arms against the government and killing police officers. r/frenworld, r/clownworld, and r/honkler were all banned for similar reasons, being hotbeds of violent white nationalist rhetoric.
- mwfunk 7y ago
  Well, that's certainly what the people telling you what they want you to believe want you to believe. People have been saying that all my life, and it wasn't any more true in the '70s for the Moral/Silent/whatever Majority than it is now.
- tdb7893 7y ago
  I don't think discourse is hurt by quarantining r/the_donald. It has a tendency to show racist/misogynistic/conspiracy theorist memes and isn't really a good place at all for actual discourse.
0xfeba 7y ago
There are far more instances of violence, or threats of violence, from the right than the left.
omegaworks 7y ago
That you characterize AOC, who espouses policies that are considered centrist literally everywhere else in the developed world like a living wage and universal healthcare, as "extreme left," and a community that openly fosters discussions of genocide, racist doxxing, and threats to journalists as just "pro-right" is a symptom of how far the Overton Window has been shoved rightward in this country. It is a fascist strategy to pretend like every pushback is an existential threat.
- goodfight 7y ago
  So it would be fascist to argue with someone that climate change is going to end the world in twelve years? I don't agree but if you apply the same logic to AOC then she's a fascist in your opinion.
  - omegaworks 7y ago
    >climate change is going to end the world in twelve years That a position that is supported by nearly all peer-reviewed evidence is not considered centrist, is another sign we've shifted the window towards an ideological rather than rational/observational politics.
    - goodfight 7y ago
      I would disagree. Most people believe in man-made climate change. It is a centrist belief. The ability to turn that topic into a fearful subject where you can rake in tax dollars is where it becomes an issue and a platform for the left. I work building software for climate research and lean to the right.
    - AnimalMuppet 7y ago
      That position is not supported by nearly all peer-reviewed evidence (for any reasonable value of "end the world").
- product50 7y ago
  It is fine. This is part of the problem. The moment you talk about right, you label them as racists, abortion banning a-holes. While AOC's views, who even Democrats label a Socialist (with policies such as green deal, 70% tax rates on high income earners, free college etc.), is now centrist! I hope you realize how different our views are - in that we aren't even on the same page to start the conversation. But of course, we should ban the right since they are racists and misogynists. And then we act surprised when Trump wins again.
dang 7y ago
Please don't take HN threads further into partisan flamewar. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- product50 7y ago
  The entire thread is going to be about partisan flamewar Dang given the context. It might be best to flag the thread vs. flagging my comment individually.
  - dang 7y ago
    It's a matter of degree. What you posted was a degree worse.
orblivion 7y ago
HN is about as balanced a site as you'll get (which isn't to say it's perfectly balanced). You just have to make your case substantively, no inflammatory stuff, etc. For instance I've seen reasonable debates with climate change skeptics here.
- buboard 7y ago
  > is about as balanced a site as you'll get Well no objectively it is not. that's why better keep politics away from it e.g. i lean libertarian and i just deleted 2 of my comments which were beginning to get downvoted fast (no replies). The last thing i care to do is argue with a mob, and this is not the first time it happened. I 'm testing the waters repeatedly and it's not working. I would encourage you to do an experiment.
  - orblivion 7y ago
    > Well no objectively it is not. Show me something better. I'm not saying it's as balanced as you _could_ get. Again, it's about how you post it. I've posted at least a handful of libertarian or conservative ideas that have gotten upvoted. You just have to make your case carefully. Snark gets downvoted, for instance. Rightwing or libertarian snark gets downvoted more, granted. They police tone here, not so much ideas. I think it's a fruitful policy.
    - buboard 7y ago
      i hear there are subreddits for rational political discourse. i dont remember their names, i use r/goldandblack for libertarian matters, (it is often frequented by leftists too). In fact i dont remember any substantial political debates in HN for years now, do you? > it's about how you post it I dont use snark but my posts are blunt. If i have to preface all my comments with social engineering fluff , i already know it's not the place to post it.
      - orblivion 7y ago
        That's true, when and if liberals make it to libertarian places, it tends to be a pretty fair discussion (of course I could be biased as a fellow libertarian). But, there aren't many liberals there, and I'd guess HN is left-of-center overall.

And Hacker News is a terrible sub to discuss this. Most tech workers tilt far-left - so likely any discussion here talking about neutrality will elicit downvotes and hatred. But here is the thing though. While reddit owners and hacker news represent one worldview which aligns left, the reality is that a large part of America, who stay quiet and are not active, tilts right. And by banning subreddits and downvoting anything which attacks left, we just create an environment where discourse is prevented - but the feeling is not.

buboard 7y ago
i actively flag all political posts here. this is clearly not a place to have a sane political discussion .
brighter2morrow 7y ago
Where did you get the idea most coders tilt far-left?
kjsbfkjbf 7y ago
HackerNews is at best center-left. Maybe not that. The world extends beyond America where being on the "left" involves drone bombing.
- buboard 7y ago
  the issue is the militancy, not the particular orientation.
phailhaus 7y ago
It is disingenuous to suggest that these subreddits are being banned simply because they "attack the left". T_D was banned because of a consistent pattern of rhetoric that violates Reddit's ToS, the most recent cases being outright calling for taking up arms against the government and killing police officers. r/frenworld, r/clownworld, and r/honkler were all banned for similar reasons, being hotbeds of violent white nationalist rhetoric.
mwfunk 7y ago
Well, that's certainly what the people telling you what they want you to believe want you to believe. People have been saying that all my life, and it wasn't any more true in the '70s for the Moral/Silent/whatever Majority than it is now.
tdb7893 7y ago
I don't think discourse is hurt by quarantining r/the_donald. It has a tendency to show racist/misogynistic/conspiracy theorist memes and isn't really a good place at all for actual discourse.

0xfeba 7y ago

There are far more instances of violence, or threats of violence, from the right than the left.

omegaworks 7y ago

That you characterize AOC, who espouses policies that are considered centrist literally everywhere else in the developed world like a living wage and universal healthcare, as "extreme left," and a community that openly fosters discussions of genocide, racist doxxing, and threats to journalists as just "pro-right" is a symptom of how far the Overton Window has been shoved rightward in this country. It is a fascist strategy to pretend like every pushback is an existential threat.

goodfight 7y ago
So it would be fascist to argue with someone that climate change is going to end the world in twelve years? I don't agree but if you apply the same logic to AOC then she's a fascist in your opinion.
- omegaworks 7y ago
  >climate change is going to end the world in twelve years That a position that is supported by nearly all peer-reviewed evidence is not considered centrist, is another sign we've shifted the window towards an ideological rather than rational/observational politics.
  - goodfight 7y ago
    I would disagree. Most people believe in man-made climate change. It is a centrist belief. The ability to turn that topic into a fearful subject where you can rake in tax dollars is where it becomes an issue and a platform for the left. I work building software for climate research and lean to the right.
  - AnimalMuppet 7y ago
    That position is not supported by nearly all peer-reviewed evidence (for any reasonable value of "end the world").
product50 7y ago
It is fine. This is part of the problem. The moment you talk about right, you label them as racists, abortion banning a-holes. While AOC's views, who even Democrats label a Socialist (with policies such as green deal, 70% tax rates on high income earners, free college etc.), is now centrist! I hope you realize how different our views are - in that we aren't even on the same page to start the conversation. But of course, we should ban the right since they are racists and misogynists. And then we act surprised when Trump wins again.

dang 7y ago

Please don't take HN threads further into partisan flamewar. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

product50 7y ago
The entire thread is going to be about partisan flamewar Dang given the context. It might be best to flag the thread vs. flagging my comment individually.
- dang 7y ago
  It's a matter of degree. What you posted was a degree worse.

orblivion 7y ago

HN is about as balanced a site as you'll get (which isn't to say it's perfectly balanced). You just have to make your case substantively, no inflammatory stuff, etc. For instance I've seen reasonable debates with climate change skeptics here.

buboard 7y ago
> is about as balanced a site as you'll get Well no objectively it is not. that's why better keep politics away from it e.g. i lean libertarian and i just deleted 2 of my comments which were beginning to get downvoted fast (no replies). The last thing i care to do is argue with a mob, and this is not the first time it happened. I 'm testing the waters repeatedly and it's not working. I would encourage you to do an experiment.
- orblivion 7y ago
  > Well no objectively it is not. Show me something better. I'm not saying it's as balanced as you _could_ get. Again, it's about how you post it. I've posted at least a handful of libertarian or conservative ideas that have gotten upvoted. You just have to make your case carefully. Snark gets downvoted, for instance. Rightwing or libertarian snark gets downvoted more, granted. They police tone here, not so much ideas. I think it's a fruitful policy.
  - buboard 7y ago
    i hear there are subreddits for rational political discourse. i dont remember their names, i use r/goldandblack for libertarian matters, (it is often frequented by leftists too). In fact i dont remember any substantial political debates in HN for years now, do you? > it's about how you post it I dont use snark but my posts are blunt. If i have to preface all my comments with social engineering fluff , i already know it's not the place to post it.
    - orblivion 7y ago
      That's true, when and if liberals make it to libertarian places, it tends to be a pretty fair discussion (of course I could be biased as a fellow libertarian). But, there aren't many liberals there, and I'd guess HN is left-of-center overall.