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I'm sorry but you are wrong regarding the Toyota problem. There was (is?) a firmware issue that caused the vehicle to attempt to speed up, regardless of if the

I'm sorry but you are wrong regarding the Toyota problem. There was (is?) a firmware issue that caused the vehicle to attempt to speed up, regardless of if the accelerator was pressed, or even if the brake was pressed. In my case, I had the brake fully depressed with around 100kg of force, and the engine was revving to attempt to overcome the brake (VERY scary situation, believe me!). The system only recovered when I bumped a taxi in front of me. Now you may say I was pushing the accelerator. If I did that I would have hit the car in front of me a lot faster than 5kph. If I was somehow pushing both the accelerator and the brake, the computer system should ignore the acceleration anyway (due to brake taking precedence). But you don't have to take my word for it. Go read up on the Toyota firmware issue, starting with link I put in the prior post. EDIT: here's another article, summarizing the faults as determined by court: https://www.edn.com/design/automotive/4423428/Toyota-s-killer-firmware--Bad-design-and-its-consequences https://www.edn.com/design/automotive/4423428/Toyota-s-kille... - Toyota’s electronic throttle control system (ETCS) source code is of unreasonable quality. - Toyota’s source code is defective and contains bugs, including bugs that can cause unintended acceleration (UA). - Code-quality metrics predict presence of additional bugs. - Toyota’s fail safes are defective and inadequate (referring to them as a “house of cards” safety architecture). - Misbehaviors of Toyota’s ETCS are a cause of UA.

maimeowmeow 7y ago
maybe you were pressing both
- novaleaf 7y ago
  From what I understand, the computer will (and should) reject the acceleration attempt in favor of the brake. But, if you own a reasonably modern vehicle, try it :)
  - gavia1 7y ago
    If this were true people wouldn't be able to do burnouts in auto transmissions cars?
    - ihattendorf 7y ago
      It's actually fairly common, try searching for "brake override".
  - gburdell3 7y ago
    That's not how it works. The brakes are more powerful than the engine, sure, but only at full braking power. Ask anyone who owns a rear-wheel-drive sports car what happens when you push both pedals at the same time and they will literally leave you in a cloud of smoke.
    - Arbalest 7y ago
      The RWD thing is definitely important here. Given that the majority of cars and a significant number of SUVs are now FWD, this doesn't hold water. Given it is the front brakes that are more powerful than the rears, and if your brakes are maybe a tad worn out, you might not be able to take your brakes from a dynamic friction situation to a static friction situation. In the mean time, your engine would just continue injecting heat into the brakes, which could easily overcome them. It might also be that he was not braking with the full force initially, meaning some degree of heat saturation may have already been present.
  - ummonk 7y ago
    I could rev my engine while pressing the brake on a 2014 Honda Civic (helped with not going backwards when I needed to start moving from a standstill on a steep hill). Is that modern enough for you? (On the other hand my 2017 Subaru Forester does not do the same; thankfully it has less of a tendency to roll backwards when releasing the brake on a steep hill.)
btilly 7y ago
First, my main point remains. Most cases of unintended acceleration are human error, regardless of whether any specific case is. I am sorry that you experienced the contrary. But it doesn't change the overall figures. Second, Toyota dragged its feet on the full variety of problems that they had. But the one that they first acknowledged was the floor mat. As https://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/toyota-pay-12b-hiding-deadly-unintended-acceleration/story?id=22972214 https://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/toyota-pay-12b-hiding-deadly-... says, At the time of the first ABC News report, Toyota attempted to assure its drivers that the incidents of sudden acceleration without warning were solely caused by floor mats becoming stuck on the gas pedals or driver error.
parliament32 7y ago
>I had the brake fully depressed with around 100kg of force, and the engine was revving to attempt to overcome the brake No, it wasn't. An engine's speed (RPM / "revs") is directly proportional to the drivetrain speed -- the RPMs literally cannot increase unless you are 1) accelerating (actual drivetrain speed going up), 2) shift to a lower gear then slip torque converter to rev match (I assume you're driving automatic), or 3) disengaged from the drivetrain (in neutral gear) and hitting the gas. There's no way for an engine to be "revving" to overcome braking. Hop in a manual car, get up to a normal speed in any gear, then try hitting both the brake and gas.
- novaleaf 7y ago
  I'm not a car guy, so maybe I am getting some technical terminology wrong. But Toyota's software did cause acceleration even without pushing the accelerator, and even while pressing the brake. They were legally proven to be at fault for that. You can speculate all you want if I was being an idiot and mis-remembering what I personally did, but these facts still stand regardless of my personal experience: 1) Toyota was legally at fault for software caused unintended acceleration in the USA 2) Toyota Thailand never issued a recall for similar makes/years Now maybe the software of cars sold in Thailand is totally different from the software of cars sold in the USA, but the cynic in me thinks it's just that Thailand's lack of consumer protections, plus Toyota's indifference, is the real reason no action was taken.
- bagbobillins 7y ago
  You are mistaken. In a car with an automatic transmission, the engine RPM is related to the drivetrain speed, but not directly proportional. The input and output shafts of the torque converter always spin at different speeds during acceleration. You can try a similar experiment to the one you proposed in a car with an automatic transmission. Stand firmly on the brake (with the parking brake engaged and nothing in front of the car, for safety), put the car in drive, and give it some gas with your other foot. You can easily get the engine to more than twice the idle speed without the wheels turning at all! (Don't do this for extended periods. It makes the torque converter get hot.)
  - 7y ago
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

maimeowmeow 7y ago

maybe you were pressing both

novaleaf 7y ago
From what I understand, the computer will (and should) reject the acceleration attempt in favor of the brake. But, if you own a reasonably modern vehicle, try it :)
- gavia1 7y ago
  If this were true people wouldn't be able to do burnouts in auto transmissions cars?
  - ihattendorf 7y ago
    It's actually fairly common, try searching for "brake override".
- gburdell3 7y ago
  That's not how it works. The brakes are more powerful than the engine, sure, but only at full braking power. Ask anyone who owns a rear-wheel-drive sports car what happens when you push both pedals at the same time and they will literally leave you in a cloud of smoke.
  - Arbalest 7y ago
    The RWD thing is definitely important here. Given that the majority of cars and a significant number of SUVs are now FWD, this doesn't hold water. Given it is the front brakes that are more powerful than the rears, and if your brakes are maybe a tad worn out, you might not be able to take your brakes from a dynamic friction situation to a static friction situation. In the mean time, your engine would just continue injecting heat into the brakes, which could easily overcome them. It might also be that he was not braking with the full force initially, meaning some degree of heat saturation may have already been present.
- ummonk 7y ago
  I could rev my engine while pressing the brake on a 2014 Honda Civic (helped with not going backwards when I needed to start moving from a standstill on a steep hill). Is that modern enough for you? (On the other hand my 2017 Subaru Forester does not do the same; thankfully it has less of a tendency to roll backwards when releasing the brake on a steep hill.)

btilly 7y ago

First, my main point remains. Most cases of unintended acceleration are human error, regardless of whether any specific case is. I am sorry that you experienced the contrary. But it doesn't change the overall figures. Second, Toyota dragged its feet on the full variety of problems that they had. But the one that they first acknowledged was the floor mat. As https://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/toyota-pay-12b-hiding-deadly-unintended-acceleration/story?id=22972214 https://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/toyota-pay-12b-hiding-deadly-... says, At the time of the first ABC News report, Toyota attempted to assure its drivers that the incidents of sudden acceleration without warning were solely caused by floor mats becoming stuck on the gas pedals or driver error.

parliament32 7y ago

>I had the brake fully depressed with around 100kg of force, and the engine was revving to attempt to overcome the brake No, it wasn't. An engine's speed (RPM / "revs") is directly proportional to the drivetrain speed -- the RPMs literally cannot increase unless you are 1) accelerating (actual drivetrain speed going up), 2) shift to a lower gear then slip torque converter to rev match (I assume you're driving automatic), or 3) disengaged from the drivetrain (in neutral gear) and hitting the gas. There's no way for an engine to be "revving" to overcome braking. Hop in a manual car, get up to a normal speed in any gear, then try hitting both the brake and gas.

novaleaf 7y ago
I'm not a car guy, so maybe I am getting some technical terminology wrong. But Toyota's software did cause acceleration even without pushing the accelerator, and even while pressing the brake. They were legally proven to be at fault for that. You can speculate all you want if I was being an idiot and mis-remembering what I personally did, but these facts still stand regardless of my personal experience: 1) Toyota was legally at fault for software caused unintended acceleration in the USA 2) Toyota Thailand never issued a recall for similar makes/years Now maybe the software of cars sold in Thailand is totally different from the software of cars sold in the USA, but the cynic in me thinks it's just that Thailand's lack of consumer protections, plus Toyota's indifference, is the real reason no action was taken.
bagbobillins 7y ago
You are mistaken. In a car with an automatic transmission, the engine RPM is related to the drivetrain speed, but not directly proportional. The input and output shafts of the torque converter always spin at different speeds during acceleration. You can try a similar experiment to the one you proposed in a car with an automatic transmission. Stand firmly on the brake (with the parking brake engaged and nothing in front of the car, for safety), put the car in drive, and give it some gas with your other foot. You can easily get the engine to more than twice the idle speed without the wheels turning at all! (Don't do this for extended periods. It makes the torque converter get hot.)
- 7y ago

deleted 7y ago

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