4 ms·

What I meant is that in Greece only a few people voted (IIRC women and slaves weren't allowed to vote), so it wasn't close to our current understanding of democ

What I meant is that in Greece only a few people voted (IIRC women and slaves weren't allowed to vote), so it wasn't close to our current understanding of democracy. Unless I'm mistaken and Greece had universal adult franchise. And hence supporting my claim that "democracy" is a Renaissance concept rather than an ancient Greek concept.

hugh3 16y ago
Rennaisance? Even the most advanced modern democracies generally didn't give women the vote until the late 1800s. (Switzerland didn't have it until 1971, and is still one of the most prosperous and peaceful countries on Earth. Germany granted women the vote in 1918, and we all know how that worked out...)
burgerbrain 16y ago
In numerous countries, and some states in the US, convicted felons who have completed their sentence are not allowed to vote. Are those not democracies as we currently understand it? For that matter, ALL countries that I am aware of that allow their citizens to vote set an arbitrary 'magic number' and don't let you vote unless you are at least that old. Are those not democracies as we currently understand it? In the United States, non-citizen residents are not allowed to vote. How is this any different from the ancient Greeks not allowing non-citizen residents to vote? Their democracy was not at all that different from our democracies today, it is the definition of "full citizen" that has changed.
russell 16y ago
No, the distinction is that the Athenian democracy was a direct democracy where every citizen could vote on legislation, as opposed to representative democracy where representatives vote in a legislature. The US was a democracy, albeit imperfect, even when slaves and women couldnt vote. There are still some remnants of direct democracy: ballot measures and New England town meetings.

4 ms·

What I meant is that in Greece only a few people voted (IIRC women and slaves weren't allowed to vote), so it wasn't close to our current understanding of democ

by anonymous246 16y ago

hugh3 16y ago
Rennaisance? Even the most advanced modern democracies generally didn't give women the vote until the late 1800s. (Switzerland didn't have it until 1971, and is still one of the most prosperous and peaceful countries on Earth. Germany granted women the vote in 1918, and we all know how that worked out...)
burgerbrain 16y ago
In numerous countries, and some states in the US, convicted felons who have completed their sentence are not allowed to vote. Are those not democracies as we currently understand it? For that matter, ALL countries that I am aware of that allow their citizens to vote set an arbitrary 'magic number' and don't let you vote unless you are at least that old. Are those not democracies as we currently understand it? In the United States, non-citizen residents are not allowed to vote. How is this any different from the ancient Greeks not allowing non-citizen residents to vote? Their democracy was not at all that different from our democracies today, it is the definition of "full citizen" that has changed.
russell 16y ago
No, the distinction is that the Athenian democracy was a direct democracy where every citizen could vote on legislation, as opposed to representative democracy where representatives vote in a legislature. The US was a democracy, albeit imperfect, even when slaves and women couldnt vote. There are still some remnants of direct democracy: ballot measures and New England town meetings.