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> Markets don't exist without the nation state because they rely on nation state technology like money. Both money and markets predate the nation-state. Marke
by nybble41 7y ago
> Markets don't exist without the nation state because they rely on nation state technology like money.
Both money and markets predate the nation-state.
Markets are just people trading with each other. You get that naturally in any society with a concept of private property. People participate in them because the alternative is producing everything themselves and no one has the necessary skills to produce everything they might want. Money similarly develops on its own once the market grows complex enough to make the barter system inconvenient and people begin to practice indirect exchange with small set of universally marketable goods rather than trading directly for items they intend to use themselves.
- mempko 7y agoThat isn't the alternative. The alternative is people get in debt with each other, which is what happened historically. People simply didn't spot trade with their neighbors. The spot trade is a property of state created markets.
- nybble41 7y agoTrading in debt isn't an alternative to markets, it's a market with debt as the currency. Regardless, the "spot trade" as you put it is also older than nation-states, not something they created.
- mempko 7y agoI good book I suggest is Debt the First 5000 Years by David Graeber. It will blow your mind.
- nybble41 7y agoI've seen it, and didn't find it very convincing. Graeber presents some interesting anecdotes regarding selected ancient social conventions, which may or may not be accurate[1], but—in my opinion—even taken at face value they don't really support his conclusions regarding the nature of debt. Perhaps the book would seem more compelling to someone who already shares the author's worldview. [1] https://www.bradford-delong.com/2014/12/2014-11-24-mo-ann-leckie-on-david-graebers-debt-the-first-5000-mistakes-handling-the-sumerian-evidence-smackdown.html https://www.bradford-delong.com/2014/12/2014-11-24-mo-ann-le...