5 ms·

Institutional slavery. If there is no profit motive in any shape or form then voluntary prison labor would be OK with my conscience.

linuxftw 7y ago
Sometimes it's voluntary because the alternative is sitting in high confinement most hours of the day.
- akiselev 7y ago
  > the alternative is sitting in high confinement most hours of the day. Then it's not voluntary.
  - rmah 7y ago
    Prison is, by definition, non-voluntary.
    - ryanmercer 7y ago
      Prison, by definition, is opt-in. You do the crime and show disregard for society, you opt-in.
      - behringer 7y ago
        And of the people innocently imprisoned? https://www.innocenceproject.org/ https://www.innocenceproject.org/ Or those imprisoned for life for stupid shit? https://www.aclu.org/report/living-death-life-without-parole-nonviolent-offenses https://www.aclu.org/report/living-death-life-without-parole...
        ryanmercer 7y ago
        >And of the people innocently imprisoned? "estimate is that 1 percent of the US prison population, approximately 20,000 people, are falsely convicted." https://www.innocenceproject.org/how-many-innocent-people-are-in-prison/ https://www.innocenceproject.org/how-many-innocent-people-ar... While it is unfortunate, they make up 1% of the prison population.
        tylermw 7y ago
        All fine and good until you're in that 1%. Then you might have a slightly different opinion on forced unpaid labor for someone else's profit, otherwise known as slavery. But seriously, I see that 1% and it solidifies why prison populations should not be subject to forced labor for profit. That is not a low number.
    - inetknght 7y ago
      So if the prisoners aren't paid but the prison is, that creates motive to (have more prisoners|create more non-voluntary workers) with an illusion of volunteering because otherwise those non-voluntary workers would be involuntarily staring at a wall all day.
  - linuxftw 7y ago
    > Then it's not voluntary. Precisely. Prisons are allowed to create inhumane conditions to help boost their supply of willing volunteers.
ryanmercer 7y ago
>Institutional slavery. I would rather have them working, following rules to keep their work privileges, than sitting around being bitter about being incarcerated or learning new methods of committing crime from others incarcerated with them. The unfortunate truly innocent people in prison aside, if you break the law you deserve to serve a sentence proportional to the severity of the crime. As long as you aren't using them to break rocks, do dangerous jobs that normally pay very well, etc then I'm completely fine with it. Stuff like manufacturing, basic construction, food prep, even order fulfillment I have no issue with whatasoever and if I were incarcerated I'd actually prefer to be doing something 40 hours a week instead of sitting around reading the same handful of books wondering what's going on with my friends, wondering if there's any new cool tech, wondering if I'll be able to cut it when I get out, wondering if the new guy is going to try and kill himself etc. Last year it came out California was using prisoners at 1$ an hour to fight wildfires, but it was completely voluntary and they did NOT have a shortage of volunteers. I believe there was a thread on here (possibly reddit though) where a commentor mentioned how a family member had done this sort of work and was happy to be out doing it. While those individuals were denied the ability to get firefighting licenses when released I imagine mentioning in your job interviews "look, yes I messed up and went to prison, I did my time, while there though I volunteered to fight wildfires. I risked my own life to do backbreaking work to try and limit the spread of the fires, I could have easily sat back at the prison watching tv of playing cards but..." is going to also help you considerably, as will most prison work programs to various degrees.
- jacquesm 7y ago
  Prisoners are not meant as cheap labor.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - moate 7y ago
    You say this, and I agree with you, and yet the system works the way it works for a reason. Like if I were an amoral shitbird with lots of money and familiarity with law enforcement, I'd probably start opening a chain of for-profit prisons while also lobbying for "tough on crime" laws and politicians. Then I'd use my for prisoners to produce goods which I could then sell back to someone for a profit. But I'm sure no amoral shitbirds like that exist and the 80s/90s saw this happen purely by coincidence.

linuxftw 7y ago

Sometimes it's voluntary because the alternative is sitting in high confinement most hours of the day.

akiselev 7y ago
> the alternative is sitting in high confinement most hours of the day. Then it's not voluntary.
- rmah 7y ago
  Prison is, by definition, non-voluntary.
  - ryanmercer 7y ago
    Prison, by definition, is opt-in. You do the crime and show disregard for society, you opt-in.
    - behringer 7y ago
      And of the people innocently imprisoned? https://www.innocenceproject.org/ https://www.innocenceproject.org/ Or those imprisoned for life for stupid shit? https://www.aclu.org/report/living-death-life-without-parole-nonviolent-offenses https://www.aclu.org/report/living-death-life-without-parole...
      - ryanmercer 7y ago
        >And of the people innocently imprisoned? "estimate is that 1 percent of the US prison population, approximately 20,000 people, are falsely convicted." https://www.innocenceproject.org/how-many-innocent-people-are-in-prison/ https://www.innocenceproject.org/how-many-innocent-people-ar... While it is unfortunate, they make up 1% of the prison population.
        tylermw 7y ago
        All fine and good until you're in that 1%. Then you might have a slightly different opinion on forced unpaid labor for someone else's profit, otherwise known as slavery. But seriously, I see that 1% and it solidifies why prison populations should not be subject to forced labor for profit. That is not a low number.
  - inetknght 7y ago
    So if the prisoners aren't paid but the prison is, that creates motive to (have more prisoners|create more non-voluntary workers) with an illusion of volunteering because otherwise those non-voluntary workers would be involuntarily staring at a wall all day.
- linuxftw 7y ago
  > Then it's not voluntary. Precisely. Prisons are allowed to create inhumane conditions to help boost their supply of willing volunteers.

ryanmercer 7y ago

>Institutional slavery. I would rather have them working, following rules to keep their work privileges, than sitting around being bitter about being incarcerated or learning new methods of committing crime from others incarcerated with them. The unfortunate truly innocent people in prison aside, if you break the law you deserve to serve a sentence proportional to the severity of the crime. As long as you aren't using them to break rocks, do dangerous jobs that normally pay very well, etc then I'm completely fine with it. Stuff like manufacturing, basic construction, food prep, even order fulfillment I have no issue with whatasoever and if I were incarcerated I'd actually prefer to be doing something 40 hours a week instead of sitting around reading the same handful of books wondering what's going on with my friends, wondering if there's any new cool tech, wondering if I'll be able to cut it when I get out, wondering if the new guy is going to try and kill himself etc. Last year it came out California was using prisoners at 1$ an hour to fight wildfires, but it was completely voluntary and they did NOT have a shortage of volunteers. I believe there was a thread on here (possibly reddit though) where a commentor mentioned how a family member had done this sort of work and was happy to be out doing it. While those individuals were denied the ability to get firefighting licenses when released I imagine mentioning in your job interviews "look, yes I messed up and went to prison, I did my time, while there though I volunteered to fight wildfires. I risked my own life to do backbreaking work to try and limit the spread of the fires, I could have easily sat back at the prison watching tv of playing cards but..." is going to also help you considerably, as will most prison work programs to various degrees.

jacquesm 7y ago
Prisoners are not meant as cheap labor.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- moate 7y ago
  You say this, and I agree with you, and yet the system works the way it works for a reason. Like if I were an amoral shitbird with lots of money and familiarity with law enforcement, I'd probably start opening a chain of for-profit prisons while also lobbying for "tough on crime" laws and politicians. Then I'd use my for prisoners to produce goods which I could then sell back to someone for a profit. But I'm sure no amoral shitbirds like that exist and the 80s/90s saw this happen purely by coincidence.