5 ms·

So you mean Fox News?

by r00fus 7y ago

cameronbrown 7y ago
Every major network pushes their own narrative. I wouldn't single Fox News out at all.
- dymk 7y ago
  "Both sides do it!" is a really unconvincing argument. Watch an hour of prime-time CNN and prime-time Fox News, and it's obvious that Fox is more willing to stretch the truth, mislead watchers, and spread FUD.
  - ddingus 7y ago
    So, a little nicer misinformation is OK?
    - dymk 7y ago
      Where did I say it’s okay? I said both sides are not equal, and conservative news outlets are worse than liberal ones. I believe that trend holds for conservatism in general. Is your defense of Fox News “nobody else is perfect, so why should anyone be held to any standard”?
      - ddingus 7y ago
        I dislike FOX and am not defending them. The major media companies are all doing a terrible job. Being better than FOX is a very low bar. I am saying that inequality does not matter all that much on a growing number of issues.
      - ddingus 7y ago
        Regarding standards, which you are in agreement with me on in terms of identifying them: Clarity in the majors is pretty low right now. Transparency in bias. Bias is not really getting an honest discussion on the major networks right now. It should. And the moment it does, there are issues to work through. Some of those may be costly to the majors too. On some topics, and I have a random list here, bias gets in the way, and the only real discussion is side discussion like ours happening right now: War (framing in terms of it being generally good, necessary) Economics (No labor point of view) Media / Internet (Neutrality, impact of massive consolidation, access journalism...) In any case, just know I was not intending to make any negative statements your way. Just asked the question to provoke some discussion, nothing more.
  - Nuzzerino 7y ago
    I would be more willing to single out Hannity than Fox News as a whole. Some of the prime time shows on Fox are opinion/entertainment rather than actual news.
  - s9w 7y ago
    I would aggressively challenge that
    - dymk 7y ago
      It appears you wouldn’t
      - s9w 7y ago
        https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/avaaz7/cnn_disguises_lobbyist_interns_and_democratic/ https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/avaaz7/cnn_disg... https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/ambn6m/saw_this_somewhere_else_cnn_labels_ralph_northam/ https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/ambn6m/saw_this... https://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/5xy20x/cnn_cuts_interview_feed_after_congressman/ https://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/5xy20x/cnn_... https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/5c8152/cnn_outs_themselves_as_using_their_own_cameramen/ https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/5c8152/cnn_outs... https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/6udivb/cnns_wolf_blitzer_portrays_barcelona_attack_as https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/6udivb/cnns_wol...
- 13415 7y ago
  If you're talking about US TV you might have a point, but I wouldn't say that Fox News meets European standards. Especially their interviews are sometimes plain demagogic and not information-seeking at all.
- sagarm 7y ago
  There is a revolving door between the Trump administration and Fox News today, with multiple high-profile Fox News personalities campaigning with Trump. This is not normal. Previous presidents, regardless of political party, did not engage in this behavior.
  - burfog 7y ago
    Former DNC chairwoman Donna Brazile works for Fox now. It would seem the revolving door is rather different from what you are seeing. She went from CNN to the DNC by being Hillary Clinton's choice to run the DNC, right after the scandal where she gave debate questions to Hillary Clinton in advance. It looks like this is in fact normal. It's understandable too, since connected people with an understanding of media and politics are obviously of value.
dkhenry 7y ago
I have found those who have bought the most into disinformation are those who have completely vilified the "others", while I would like to say most of those people are the one's who consume Fox News unquestionably most of the people are getting their news from social media such as Facebook and Reddit.
ddingus 7y ago
The other majors are doing it too. The topic may change, but those techniques are in wide use by the major media conglomerates.
dang 7y ago
Please don't take HN threads further into political flamewar. Those are low-quality discussions and we're trying for something a bit better here. We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20286990 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20286990 and marked it off-topic.
mwfunk 7y ago
Yeah, bravo to gfodor. They really hit the nail on the head with their takedown of the rural right-wing propaganda bubble. Brutal. I'm sure that was their intent, otherwise it would be disturbing levels of projection. Fox exists to selectively tell its viewers what to feel about things, and it explicitly, by design, does not exist to be one of many sources of information to base one's own judgements on. An easy way to tell is to just watch it- it's really obvious. It's really, really obvious, like the-sky-is-blue and one-plus-one-equals-two shit. Nobody needs to interpret or analyze anything on Fox to come to that conclusion- it's just that blindingly obvious, from the words they choose to describe things, to what they choose to cover and how they cover it. The only people who watch it are those who want to believe in the world that it wants them to believe in. If anyone has any doubt, just keep an eye on memeorandum.com or any other aggregator of American media. Over the course of days and weeks, you can observe how different stories are presented in all these different news outlets, and how each one presents it with no spin, or some spin, or obvious amounts of spin in one direction or another. You also see which outlets ignore which stories altogether. It's really apparent which of those outlets are the most committed to shaping stories to suit their (or their owners' or editors') agenda, and which ones make at least token efforts to be relatively useful sources of information. There's no shortage of spin on both sides but it's clearly the likes of Fox and Breitbart that are head and shoulders above their peers in both telling their audience what to think (and feel), and that seem to be gifted with an audience that wants to be told what to think (and feel), and that really wants to buy what they're selling.

So you mean Fox News?

by r00fus 7y ago

So you mean Fox News?

cameronbrown 7y ago

Every major network pushes their own narrative. I wouldn't single Fox News out at all.

dymk 7y ago
"Both sides do it!" is a really unconvincing argument. Watch an hour of prime-time CNN and prime-time Fox News, and it's obvious that Fox is more willing to stretch the truth, mislead watchers, and spread FUD.
- ddingus 7y ago
  So, a little nicer misinformation is OK?
  - dymk 7y ago
    Where did I say it’s okay? I said both sides are not equal, and conservative news outlets are worse than liberal ones. I believe that trend holds for conservatism in general. Is your defense of Fox News “nobody else is perfect, so why should anyone be held to any standard”?
    - ddingus 7y ago
      I dislike FOX and am not defending them. The major media companies are all doing a terrible job. Being better than FOX is a very low bar. I am saying that inequality does not matter all that much on a growing number of issues.
    - ddingus 7y ago
      Regarding standards, which you are in agreement with me on in terms of identifying them: Clarity in the majors is pretty low right now. Transparency in bias. Bias is not really getting an honest discussion on the major networks right now. It should. And the moment it does, there are issues to work through. Some of those may be costly to the majors too. On some topics, and I have a random list here, bias gets in the way, and the only real discussion is side discussion like ours happening right now: War (framing in terms of it being generally good, necessary) Economics (No labor point of view) Media / Internet (Neutrality, impact of massive consolidation, access journalism...) In any case, just know I was not intending to make any negative statements your way. Just asked the question to provoke some discussion, nothing more.
- Nuzzerino 7y ago
  I would be more willing to single out Hannity than Fox News as a whole. Some of the prime time shows on Fox are opinion/entertainment rather than actual news.
- s9w 7y ago
  I would aggressively challenge that
  - dymk 7y ago
    It appears you wouldn’t
    - s9w 7y ago
      https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/avaaz7/cnn_disguises_lobbyist_interns_and_democratic/ https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/avaaz7/cnn_disg... https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/ambn6m/saw_this_somewhere_else_cnn_labels_ralph_northam/ https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/ambn6m/saw_this... https://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/5xy20x/cnn_cuts_interview_feed_after_congressman/ https://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/5xy20x/cnn_... https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/5c8152/cnn_outs_themselves_as_using_their_own_cameramen/ https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/5c8152/cnn_outs... https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/6udivb/cnns_wolf_blitzer_portrays_barcelona_attack_as https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/6udivb/cnns_wol...
13415 7y ago
If you're talking about US TV you might have a point, but I wouldn't say that Fox News meets European standards. Especially their interviews are sometimes plain demagogic and not information-seeking at all.
sagarm 7y ago
There is a revolving door between the Trump administration and Fox News today, with multiple high-profile Fox News personalities campaigning with Trump. This is not normal. Previous presidents, regardless of political party, did not engage in this behavior.
- burfog 7y ago
  Former DNC chairwoman Donna Brazile works for Fox now. It would seem the revolving door is rather different from what you are seeing. She went from CNN to the DNC by being Hillary Clinton's choice to run the DNC, right after the scandal where she gave debate questions to Hillary Clinton in advance. It looks like this is in fact normal. It's understandable too, since connected people with an understanding of media and politics are obviously of value.

dkhenry 7y ago

I have found those who have bought the most into disinformation are those who have completely vilified the "others", while I would like to say most of those people are the one's who consume Fox News unquestionably most of the people are getting their news from social media such as Facebook and Reddit.

ddingus 7y ago

The other majors are doing it too. The topic may change, but those techniques are in wide use by the major media conglomerates.

dang 7y ago

Please don't take HN threads further into political flamewar. Those are low-quality discussions and we're trying for something a bit better here. We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20286990 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20286990 and marked it off-topic.

mwfunk 7y ago

Yeah, bravo to gfodor. They really hit the nail on the head with their takedown of the rural right-wing propaganda bubble. Brutal. I'm sure that was their intent, otherwise it would be disturbing levels of projection. Fox exists to selectively tell its viewers what to feel about things, and it explicitly, by design, does not exist to be one of many sources of information to base one's own judgements on. An easy way to tell is to just watch it- it's really obvious. It's really, really obvious, like the-sky-is-blue and one-plus-one-equals-two shit. Nobody needs to interpret or analyze anything on Fox to come to that conclusion- it's just that blindingly obvious, from the words they choose to describe things, to what they choose to cover and how they cover it. The only people who watch it are those who want to believe in the world that it wants them to believe in. If anyone has any doubt, just keep an eye on memeorandum.com or any other aggregator of American media. Over the course of days and weeks, you can observe how different stories are presented in all these different news outlets, and how each one presents it with no spin, or some spin, or obvious amounts of spin in one direction or another. You also see which outlets ignore which stories altogether. It's really apparent which of those outlets are the most committed to shaping stories to suit their (or their owners' or editors') agenda, and which ones make at least token efforts to be relatively useful sources of information. There's no shortage of spin on both sides but it's clearly the likes of Fox and Breitbart that are head and shoulders above their peers in both telling their audience what to think (and feel), and that seem to be gifted with an audience that wants to be told what to think (and feel), and that really wants to buy what they're selling.