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Yes. People don't have any real control with what happens in their life. Similar to a computer simulation with 3d objects.

• NickM 7y ago
  People don't have any real control with what happens in their life. Sure they do. Saying that people don't have control over anything is like saying "the light switches in my house don't control the lights because the switches can't do anything without a person flipping them". Just because there's no spontaneous self-generated action that a switch can perform by itself doesn't mean that the switch isn't controlling something. Looking at this from a different angle, do you believe that a digital simulation of your brain would produce the same kind of subjective experience of consciousness within the computer that you yourself perceive? Is subjective experience simply a side effect of certain types of computation? That may be true, but if you believe that, you start to get into some profoundly bizarre implications about the nature of reality. Check out the novel "Permutation City" by Greg Egan for a great exploration of this topic.
  • sysbin 7y ago
    > Sure they do. Saying that people don't have control over anything is like saying "the light switches in my house don't control the lights because the switches can't do anything without a person flipping them". Just because there's no spontaneous self-generated action that a switch can perform by itself doesn't mean that the switch isn't controlling something. I disagree with your interpretation of control. The word is human expression and shared between one another. So you can have a different understanding of the word than mine and neither of us can truly hold power over the word. As for me control doesn't exist in reality because the light bulb doesn't actually control the outcome of the light turning on or off. The beginning of all events is really what controlled the forces to make the force of the light switch going on or off. > Looking at this from a different angle, do you believe that a digital simulation of your brain would produce the same kind of subjective experience of consciousness within the computer that you yourself perceive? Yes, I'll take a look at the novel you recommended.
• bdamm 7y ago
  That's a fairly limited view of physics. We don't actually fully understand how our bodies interact with the quantum (or Newtonian, really) physics realms that we exist within. There's a lot more to the brain than just (just! hah!) neurotransmitters and neural layout.
  • sysbin 7y ago
    Determinism isn't a limited view of physics. There are people who understand determinism and then there are people who prefer faith than understanding determinism.
    • bdamm 7y ago
      The closer we look into quantum phenomena the less deterministic it looks, so there seems to be plenty of room in between faith and determinism for will, and many other possibilities to boot.
      • sysbin 7y ago
        That’s a common misconception of not understanding quantum physics and determinism. Do you want me to explain how quantum physics doesn’t change anything about you not having free will.
        • bdamm 7y ago
          Absolutely not. We don't even understand larger scale phenomenon such as turbulent flow in fluids, so there's no way we could understand the interaction between turbulent flow and quantum phenomenon in our brain. Given that gap, the insistence that physics provides the determinism that means all our outcomes are predetermined is just your desire to believe you know something.
          • sysbin 7y ago
            I assume you should read about determinism but you likely won't because you don't understand the underlining problem "how you're unable to have a will that's truly our own" and your writing appears to me that you're stubborn; and or unwilling to ever discover you don't have control that's truly your own by actually understanding determinism. Even if a thought (an external force) occurred that truly wasn't deterministic. You still would be shaped by it and from all the preceding forces exerted upon you playing a part as well. Furthermore, (non related) Quantum physics may just be local hidden variables and or another deterministic universe intertwined with our deterministic universe and making the results we're unable to measure appear random. Many people fear determinism and so they put so much faith into quantum physics without understanding how it doesn't change your outcome to be truly your own. We very well may be in a universe that's different than another and that has you & I never conversing because a deterministic system (outside our universe) is making "random occurrences" (that aren't really random) just not measurable in our lifetimes; thus making one universe verge off from another in the deterministic outcomes. That doesn't give us a will that's our own. Similar if we prayed to God for an event in our life to occur or not to happen. All the forces exerted upon us, up until us praying is what made the event occur and not even a God could have a will that's his/her own because any being is shaped by the events experienced. Simply, you cannot make a decision that wasn't effected by all the events (forces exerted upon you) that occurred against you in life. You're the product of what encompasses you and all the forces chain-back to the very beginning of life.
• mensetmanusman 7y ago
  That is true of your life maybe, but not mine!
  • sysbin 7y ago
    Oh how so? I'm guessing you just don't want to accept reality.
    • mensetmanusman 7y ago
      Your comment assumes I have free will ;)
      • sysbin 7y ago
        You haven't thought about how you couldn't have free will is what I assume when reading what you responded. I don't think there is anything you can write to show that you have free will and everything proves otherwise when concerning scientific research. I still like to see what people think and when they believe to have free will. Whatever the response you make is by fate is understood. As well as your opinion being by fate and if you want to stay delusional or accept reality. Me writing I think you cannot accept reality was fated and it doesn't mean your mind won't ever get the variables to understand reality. Heck, you may even understand everything after reading about it as well and that would be by fate if so. Btw, I really care that people don't live in delusions and so if you ever want to know why you shouldn't be deluded.. Let me know.
        • mensetmanusman 7y ago
          Your comments no decision and ‘stay delusional’ also assume free will... if we don’t have free will, that means the existence of dollar general is wrapped up in the laws of physics, and that we should find an unlimited number of these stores once we can check the universe :)
          • sysbin 7y ago