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You think the government does not have secret access to a surveillance system, developed in their own country, more widespread and ingrained into daily life tha

by gloflo 7y ago

You think the government does not have secret access to a surveillance system, developed in their own country, more widespread and ingrained into daily life than anything before?

freehunter 7y ago
If that's the case though... what are they using it for? They haven't stopped mass shootings. They haven't stopped terrorism or bombings or domestic violence or child molesters. They never bring the evidence to court. There's zero indication they've done anything with the wide mass surveillance net they're supposed to have access to. So what is it there for?
- fghtr 7y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_surveillance#Purposes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_surveillance#Purposes
  - fghtr 7y ago
    more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_surveillance_in_the_United_States#Uses_of_intercepted_data https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_surveillance_in_the_Unite...
- nexuist 7y ago
  Just to play devil's advocate, we don't know how many crimes have been stopped with these systems in place. It's entirely possible that it has foiled terrorist attacks in the past. Making it public (supposedly) would allow other people to figure out how to avoid it and reduce its effectiveness. Of course the alternative theory that it's there for control and manipulation is more likely.
  - jimbob45 7y ago
    Consider high school shootings alone. They've spiked since the NSA started their program in 2005. By your hypothesis, we're not seeing these invisibly stopped school shootings, which must be on an order of magnitude higher than what we're seeing to account for the spike since 2005. Either that or the NSA just isn't doing anything to stop these shootings. We may never know.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- CWuestefeld 7y ago
  From wikipedia: Parallel construction is a law enforcement process of building a parallel—or separate—evidentiary basis for a criminal investigation in order to conceal how an investigation actually began. In the US, a particular form is evidence laundering, where one police officer obtains evidence via means that are in violation of the Fourth Amendment's protection against unreasonable searches and seizures, and then passes it on to another officer, who builds on it and gets it accepted by the court under the good-faith exception as applied to the second officer. This practice gained support after the Supreme Court's 2009 Herring v. United States decision. ... In August 2013, a report by Reuters revealed that the Special Operations Division (SOD) of the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration advises DEA agents to practice parallel construction when creating criminal cases against Americans that are based on NSA warrantless surveillance. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_construction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_construction

by gloflo 7y ago

You think the government does not have secret access to a surveillance system, developed in their own country, more widespread and ingrained into daily life than anything before?

freehunter 7y ago

If that's the case though... what are they using it for? They haven't stopped mass shootings. They haven't stopped terrorism or bombings or domestic violence or child molesters. They never bring the evidence to court. There's zero indication they've done anything with the wide mass surveillance net they're supposed to have access to. So what is it there for?

fghtr 7y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_surveillance#Purposes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_surveillance#Purposes
- fghtr 7y ago
  more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_surveillance_in_the_United_States#Uses_of_intercepted_data https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_surveillance_in_the_Unite...
nexuist 7y ago
Just to play devil's advocate, we don't know how many crimes have been stopped with these systems in place. It's entirely possible that it has foiled terrorist attacks in the past. Making it public (supposedly) would allow other people to figure out how to avoid it and reduce its effectiveness. Of course the alternative theory that it's there for control and manipulation is more likely.
- jimbob45 7y ago
  Consider high school shootings alone. They've spiked since the NSA started their program in 2005. By your hypothesis, we're not seeing these invisibly stopped school shootings, which must be on an order of magnitude higher than what we're seeing to account for the spike since 2005. Either that or the NSA just isn't doing anything to stop these shootings. We may never know.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
CWuestefeld 7y ago
From wikipedia: Parallel construction is a law enforcement process of building a parallel—or separate—evidentiary basis for a criminal investigation in order to conceal how an investigation actually began. In the US, a particular form is evidence laundering, where one police officer obtains evidence via means that are in violation of the Fourth Amendment's protection against unreasonable searches and seizures, and then passes it on to another officer, who builds on it and gets it accepted by the court under the good-faith exception as applied to the second officer. This practice gained support after the Supreme Court's 2009 Herring v. United States decision. ... In August 2013, a report by Reuters revealed that the Special Operations Division (SOD) of the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration advises DEA agents to practice parallel construction when creating criminal cases against Americans that are based on NSA warrantless surveillance. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_construction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_construction