3 ms·

Easy: Hand every tourist a brochure about the Do's and Dont's. Aka, like Singapore prints warnings (DEATH TO DRUG TRAFFICKERS) on their landing cards. If laws

Easy: Hand every tourist a brochure about the Do's and Dont's. Aka, like Singapore prints warnings (DEATH TO DRUG TRAFFICKERS) on their landing cards. If laws and rules are disrespected fine the sweet bejeezus out of those assholes (like in the thousands of $ range) and ban them from the country (or ideally, from the Schengen room) for 5 to 10 years. The problem will solve itself in short time.

ajmurmann 7y ago
Love the idea. One improvement: let's make this an international effort and ban them from travel to any other participating country as well.
- close04 7y ago
  That escalated quickly. In law there is a principle of proportionality [0]. It's the reason why jaywalking isn't punished by 60 days in prison or by getting sent back to your country and banned from ever travelling to any country that has pedestrian crossings. Also laws should apply equally to everybody. How would such a law apply to locals? Withdraw citizenship? I think hitting them with fines or paying damages is a different matter and might just be enough. Banning someone from half a continent is certainly a knee jerk reaction. Impossible punishments also have some side effects. Even law abiding tourists start avoiding the country completely if they know a mistake lands them on the ban list for half a continent. And perhaps worse, if one makes a mistake they no longer have anything to lose by doing it again until they leave the country, they're facing the ban anyway. See the 3-strikes law [1] where the third strike is almost always murder because by then the culprit knows they'll do life anyway. The deterrent is gone. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proportionality_(law) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proportionality_(law) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-strikes_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-strikes_law
  - shiven 7y ago
    I don’t know which country you live in, but in the United States of America, all this talk of “fairness of law” is a fairytale at best. And no, you can’t convince me otherwise.
    - asnack 7y ago
      No needs to. You can live your life in ignorance all you want
      - dang 7y ago
        Please don't post unsubstantive comments or personal swipes to HN. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    - dang 7y ago
      Nationalistic flamebait will get you banned here. Please don't post like this to HN. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
      - shiven 7y ago
        Sure. Agreed. HN needs better discourse. Is there a “Delete Account” feature here? How do I go about deleting my account, including ALL my comments/submissions over the last 10 years. I want to leave absolutely ZERO footprint on HN. As if I was never ever here. How do I make it happen? Thank you.
  - CaptainZapp 7y ago
    You will probably be surprised when I state that I agree with you in general. Nobody wants a dictatorial state, which puts you under constant surveillance and jumps on you for the smallest of infractions (Singapore being again a great example). I do feel, however, that this Instagram self promotion shit has gotten so badly out of hand, that drastic measures may really be justified. As the article explains Iceland's nature is very fragile. Hell! They even employ speicalists to determine if any elfs or trolls are impacted by roads construction[1]. Now, you may think of this what you want, but to the people of Iceland this is important. And assholes, which metaphorically shit on their living room carpet for fun, profit and self promotion really don't deserve lenient treatment. So. no! I would't recommend such treatment for a couple youngsters that got a little loud after a few drinks, or for a tourist who makes an innocent mistake. But self entilted scum, who feel they have a god given right to abuse anything and anybody, destroy fragile nature intentionally for that "great shot" (which was taken hundreds of times anyway) despite being fully informed that their action is illegal, well, yeah. I wouldn't have a problem with that and actually think it would make everybody's life better. As a matter of fact: There's a level of assholery where I would deem my suggestion absolutely proportional. YMMV, of course. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2015/mar/25/iceland-construction-respect-elves-or-else https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2015/mar/25/iceland... Edited to add : You added the second link (three strikes law) later and I think you should have added an edit tag, since it's an actual change to the whole semantics of your comment. I think that introducing a trait, which only can be found in the American justice system and is mostly (if not entirely) geared towards minorities and is actually outright racist as an answer to my comment is pretty much a strawman. Adding it later without tagging that fact makes it intelectually dishonest too.
    - moccachino 7y ago
      Iceland could claim government copyright on all their landscape, and charge for every Instagram post.
    - close04 7y ago
      > Now, you may think of this what you want, but to the people of Iceland this is important. I do think it's important. It's a beautiful country. But a disproportionate reaction might do more bad than good. Civilized tourists stop coming when they know a relatively small mistake can literally ruin their lives. And once someone knows they screwed up with witnesses they know they have nothing to lose by doing some additional stuff. And I'm pretty sure some would make the most of it. Please don't get hung up on the interpretation of my words. The point is any kind of overreaction will without a doubt do more bad than good. It certainly sets a dangerous precedent on treating crimes that are only serious en masse rather than as individual occurrences. P.S. My original comment was not actually addressed to you but to another fellow commenter who's comment builds on your idea. And the 3-strikes law has nothing to do with racism in my comment, not more that saying people should be banned from Iceland is xenophobic. It has everything to do with how people react when they are faced with disproportionate punishment, the topic at hand. I did add it later, probably when you were already composing your message. Contrary to your assumption it wasn't meant as "intellectual dishonesty". It was just an example to strengthen the point I was making that came to me later, before your comment was displayed on the page. Edited for clarity and to add paragraph 2.
- vageli 7y ago
  > Love the idea. One improvement: let's make this an international effort and ban them from travel to any other participating country as well. Yeah and let's make it possible to add arbitrary names to that list with minimal oversight! We could call it the international No Fly list.
rando444 7y ago
We have something like that, which you find in the airport and various places. https://www.inspiredbyiceland.com/icelandicpledge/ https://www.inspiredbyiceland.com/icelandicpledge/ The people that need to read it the most though, either don't or don't care.
- CaptainZapp 7y ago
  This should just be common sense to every traveller anywhere. It's really a sad reflection of where we stand that this does not seem to be the case. Thanks for the link.

ajmurmann 7y ago

Love the idea. One improvement: let's make this an international effort and ban them from travel to any other participating country as well.

close04 7y ago
That escalated quickly. In law there is a principle of proportionality [0]. It's the reason why jaywalking isn't punished by 60 days in prison or by getting sent back to your country and banned from ever travelling to any country that has pedestrian crossings. Also laws should apply equally to everybody. How would such a law apply to locals? Withdraw citizenship? I think hitting them with fines or paying damages is a different matter and might just be enough. Banning someone from half a continent is certainly a knee jerk reaction. Impossible punishments also have some side effects. Even law abiding tourists start avoiding the country completely if they know a mistake lands them on the ban list for half a continent. And perhaps worse, if one makes a mistake they no longer have anything to lose by doing it again until they leave the country, they're facing the ban anyway. See the 3-strikes law [1] where the third strike is almost always murder because by then the culprit knows they'll do life anyway. The deterrent is gone. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proportionality_(law) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proportionality_(law) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-strikes_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-strikes_law
- shiven 7y ago
  I don’t know which country you live in, but in the United States of America, all this talk of “fairness of law” is a fairytale at best. And no, you can’t convince me otherwise.
  - asnack 7y ago
    No needs to. You can live your life in ignorance all you want
    - dang 7y ago
      Please don't post unsubstantive comments or personal swipes to HN. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - dang 7y ago
    Nationalistic flamebait will get you banned here. Please don't post like this to HN. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    - shiven 7y ago
      Sure. Agreed. HN needs better discourse. Is there a “Delete Account” feature here? How do I go about deleting my account, including ALL my comments/submissions over the last 10 years. I want to leave absolutely ZERO footprint on HN. As if I was never ever here. How do I make it happen? Thank you.
- CaptainZapp 7y ago
  You will probably be surprised when I state that I agree with you in general. Nobody wants a dictatorial state, which puts you under constant surveillance and jumps on you for the smallest of infractions (Singapore being again a great example). I do feel, however, that this Instagram self promotion shit has gotten so badly out of hand, that drastic measures may really be justified. As the article explains Iceland's nature is very fragile. Hell! They even employ speicalists to determine if any elfs or trolls are impacted by roads construction[1]. Now, you may think of this what you want, but to the people of Iceland this is important. And assholes, which metaphorically shit on their living room carpet for fun, profit and self promotion really don't deserve lenient treatment. So. no! I would't recommend such treatment for a couple youngsters that got a little loud after a few drinks, or for a tourist who makes an innocent mistake. But self entilted scum, who feel they have a god given right to abuse anything and anybody, destroy fragile nature intentionally for that "great shot" (which was taken hundreds of times anyway) despite being fully informed that their action is illegal, well, yeah. I wouldn't have a problem with that and actually think it would make everybody's life better. As a matter of fact: There's a level of assholery where I would deem my suggestion absolutely proportional. YMMV, of course. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2015/mar/25/iceland-construction-respect-elves-or-else https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2015/mar/25/iceland... Edited to add : You added the second link (three strikes law) later and I think you should have added an edit tag, since it's an actual change to the whole semantics of your comment. I think that introducing a trait, which only can be found in the American justice system and is mostly (if not entirely) geared towards minorities and is actually outright racist as an answer to my comment is pretty much a strawman. Adding it later without tagging that fact makes it intelectually dishonest too.
  - moccachino 7y ago
    Iceland could claim government copyright on all their landscape, and charge for every Instagram post.
  - close04 7y ago
    > Now, you may think of this what you want, but to the people of Iceland this is important. I do think it's important. It's a beautiful country. But a disproportionate reaction might do more bad than good. Civilized tourists stop coming when they know a relatively small mistake can literally ruin their lives. And once someone knows they screwed up with witnesses they know they have nothing to lose by doing some additional stuff. And I'm pretty sure some would make the most of it. Please don't get hung up on the interpretation of my words. The point is any kind of overreaction will without a doubt do more bad than good. It certainly sets a dangerous precedent on treating crimes that are only serious en masse rather than as individual occurrences. P.S. My original comment was not actually addressed to you but to another fellow commenter who's comment builds on your idea. And the 3-strikes law has nothing to do with racism in my comment, not more that saying people should be banned from Iceland is xenophobic. It has everything to do with how people react when they are faced with disproportionate punishment, the topic at hand. I did add it later, probably when you were already composing your message. Contrary to your assumption it wasn't meant as "intellectual dishonesty". It was just an example to strengthen the point I was making that came to me later, before your comment was displayed on the page. Edited for clarity and to add paragraph 2.
vageli 7y ago
> Love the idea. One improvement: let's make this an international effort and ban them from travel to any other participating country as well. Yeah and let's make it possible to add arbitrary names to that list with minimal oversight! We could call it the international No Fly list.

rando444 7y ago

We have something like that, which you find in the airport and various places. https://www.inspiredbyiceland.com/icelandicpledge/ https://www.inspiredbyiceland.com/icelandicpledge/ The people that need to read it the most though, either don't or don't care.

CaptainZapp 7y ago
This should just be common sense to every traveller anywhere. It's really a sad reflection of where we stand that this does not seem to be the case. Thanks for the link.