4 ms·

I was born and raised in a country that was behind the Iron Curtain so please don't lecture me on the history. Russia has a lot to answer for even if we disrega

by _hao 7y ago

I was born and raised in a country that was behind the Iron Curtain so please don't lecture me on the history. Russia has a lot to answer for even if we disregard communism entirely. Russia culturally and historically IS part of Europe, but that's where the similarities end. They're not part of European society and are most definitely an enemy to it.

igravious 7y ago
I'm very sorry for whatever you endured behind the Iron Curtain but I'm from Europe too and you don't get draw arbitrary lines between peoples. You can't really say that Russia is culturally and historically part of Europe but then with the next breath deny that they are part of European society. Russia is not an enemy of Europe, looks like Russia is returning to the Council of Europe: https://www.ft.com/content/dee5c792-9731-11e9-8cfb-30c211dcd229 https://www.ft.com/content/dee5c792-9731-11e9-8cfb-30c211dcd... – It'd be a strange thing for a non-European country to be part of the Council of Europe. I am not saying that there isn't a deep mistrust there and undeniably there is much friction and animosity. But Germany would hardly decide to construct an essential energy pipeline with an enemy, would it? In your mind you see Russia as an enemy of Europe but many people in Europe do not see Russia that way. Which group is correct? Maybe life isn't black and white and the truth is somewhere in the middle? There's a difference between being a geopolitical rival and an outright enemy. It troubles me deeply that there is so much hostile speech on HackerNews for our brothers and sisters in Russia and China.
cat199 7y ago
> European society If one defines 'European Society' as Bretton Woods + EU/EEC, then yes, you can make a case, although 'enemy' is likely debatable in strength. If however one takes the view that EU is essentially the current incarnation of the 'western roman empire' then the discussion gets more interesting..

by _hao 7y ago

igravious 7y ago

I'm very sorry for whatever you endured behind the Iron Curtain but I'm from Europe too and you don't get draw arbitrary lines between peoples. You can't really say that Russia is culturally and historically part of Europe but then with the next breath deny that they are part of European society. Russia is not an enemy of Europe, looks like Russia is returning to the Council of Europe: https://www.ft.com/content/dee5c792-9731-11e9-8cfb-30c211dcd229 https://www.ft.com/content/dee5c792-9731-11e9-8cfb-30c211dcd... – It'd be a strange thing for a non-European country to be part of the Council of Europe. I am not saying that there isn't a deep mistrust there and undeniably there is much friction and animosity. But Germany would hardly decide to construct an essential energy pipeline with an enemy, would it? In your mind you see Russia as an enemy of Europe but many people in Europe do not see Russia that way. Which group is correct? Maybe life isn't black and white and the truth is somewhere in the middle? There's a difference between being a geopolitical rival and an outright enemy. It troubles me deeply that there is so much hostile speech on HackerNews for our brothers and sisters in Russia and China.

cat199 7y ago

> European society If one defines 'European Society' as Bretton Woods + EU/EEC, then yes, you can make a case, although 'enemy' is likely debatable in strength. If however one takes the view that EU is essentially the current incarnation of the 'western roman empire' then the discussion gets more interesting..