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> Russia has been meddling with European affairs for hundreds of years. This again? That's akin to complaining that New York has been meddling in North Americ
by igravious 7y ago
> Russia has been meddling with European affairs for hundreds of years.
This again?
That's akin to complaining that New York has been meddling in North American affairs for hundreds of years. Please please remember that Russia is a transcontinental country, a significant part of Russia is distinctly European.
“European Russia is the western part of the Russian Federation, which is part of Eastern Europe. With a population of 110 million people, European Russia has about 77% of Russia's population, but covers less than 25% of Russia's territory. European Russia includes Moscow and Saint Petersburg, the two largest cities in Russia.”†
The distance from Helsinki in Finland to St. Petersburg is a mere 400km! The thing is, Russia is so large it is part of Europe but also borders China.
Think about Russian culture for a second: ballet, classical music, Russian literature, a Latin-like alphabet (more recognisable than the Greek alphabet when you think about it), architecture – all recognisably European. Does it need to be pointed out that "Europe" has attacked Russia many times (the Napoleonic wars, the Wehrmacht) and that Russia was on the Allied side of WWII, the last hot war fought between great powers.
Russia has been demonised for too long for choosing the wrong ideology (communism) and becoming the sole 20th century political/economic/nuclear rival to the USA under the guise of the Soviet Union. I recommend the biopic Meeting Gorbachev by Werner Herzog for a perspective on the collapse of the Soviet Union by the person at its helm at the time‡. If you still think "evil empire" after watching it then I don't know what to say.
If by European you mean Western European please use that qualification.
All of Europe including Russia (but also India and others) are watching with trepidation as this geopolitical struggle between the US and China plays out.
† https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Russia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Russia
‡ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meeting_Gorbachev https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meeting_Gorbachev
edit: add religion to the common heritage as well
- _hao 7y agoI was born and raised in a country that was behind the Iron Curtain so please don't lecture me on the history. Russia has a lot to answer for even if we disregard communism entirely. Russia culturally and historically IS part of Europe, but that's where the similarities end. They're not part of European society and are most definitely an enemy to it.
- igravious 7y agoI'm very sorry for whatever you endured behind the Iron Curtain but I'm from Europe too and you don't get draw arbitrary lines between peoples. You can't really say that Russia is culturally and historically part of Europe but then with the next breath deny that they are part of European society. Russia is not an enemy of Europe, looks like Russia is returning to the Council of Europe: https://www.ft.com/content/dee5c792-9731-11e9-8cfb-30c211dcd229 https://www.ft.com/content/dee5c792-9731-11e9-8cfb-30c211dcd... – It'd be a strange thing for a non-European country to be part of the Council of Europe. I am not saying that there isn't a deep mistrust there and undeniably there is much friction and animosity. But Germany would hardly decide to construct an essential energy pipeline with an enemy, would it? In your mind you see Russia as an enemy of Europe but many people in Europe do not see Russia that way. Which group is correct? Maybe life isn't black and white and the truth is somewhere in the middle? There's a difference between being a geopolitical rival and an outright enemy. It troubles me deeply that there is so much hostile speech on HackerNews for our brothers and sisters in Russia and China.
- cat199 7y ago> European society If one defines 'European Society' as Bretton Woods + EU/EEC, then yes, you can make a case, although 'enemy' is likely debatable in strength. If however one takes the view that EU is essentially the current incarnation of the 'western roman empire' then the discussion gets more interesting..
- notfromhere 7y agoRussians are Europeans, but they see themselves distinct from Europeans.
- igravious 7y agoThat's sort of what I'm getting at… It's odd to say that Russia is meddling in the affairs of Europe if they themselves are European. Is the British public meddling in the affairs of Europe by Brexiting the European Union? I get that people use language like this but it only serves to drive a wedge between people that have more in common with each other than they do with people from outside Europe.
- notfromhere 7y agoThey see themselves as distinct from Europe. It's more like...Russia is meddling in the democratic systems of Europe.
- basch 7y agoIt also went through an enlightenment within the same window as the rest of Europe. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Enlightenment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Enlightenment I wouldnt argue it in isolation, but among other things, having experienced a transformative enlightenment, is largely what we use to label a country as Western. Russia Westernized under Catherine the Great.