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Obligatory: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_and_the_English_Language http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_and_the_English_Langua... Full text: http://or

Obligatory: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_and_the_English_Language http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_and_the_English_Langua... Full text: http://orwell.ru/library/essays/politics/english/e_polit http://orwell.ru/library/essays/politics/english/e_polit "It becomes ugly and inaccurate because our thoughts are foolish, but the slovenliness of our language makes it easier for us to have foolish thoughts." One of the most insightful sentences I've ever read. IMHO, non-European languages only have rough equivalents for Renaissance concepts like equality, democracy, scientific inquiry etc (yeah yeah, I know Greece had a so-called democracy; I'm talking about our modern-day understanding of these concepts). Blocking the precise word from being used in Chinese may be a mind-control trick.

hugh3 16y ago
I'm confused about your parenthetical Greek remark. Isn't ancient Greek a European language, and doesn't our actual word "democracy" come directly from it? And I'm not so sure that their concept of the meaning of "democracy" was significantly different to ours, even though there were significant differences for how it went on in practice.
- anonymous246 16y ago
  What I meant is that in Greece only a few people voted (IIRC women and slaves weren't allowed to vote), so it wasn't close to our current understanding of democracy. Unless I'm mistaken and Greece had universal adult franchise. And hence supporting my claim that "democracy" is a Renaissance concept rather than an ancient Greek concept.
  - hugh3 16y ago
    Rennaisance? Even the most advanced modern democracies generally didn't give women the vote until the late 1800s. (Switzerland didn't have it until 1971, and is still one of the most prosperous and peaceful countries on Earth. Germany granted women the vote in 1918, and we all know how that worked out...)
  - burgerbrain 16y ago
    In numerous countries, and some states in the US, convicted felons who have completed their sentence are not allowed to vote. Are those not democracies as we currently understand it? For that matter, ALL countries that I am aware of that allow their citizens to vote set an arbitrary 'magic number' and don't let you vote unless you are at least that old. Are those not democracies as we currently understand it? In the United States, non-citizen residents are not allowed to vote. How is this any different from the ancient Greeks not allowing non-citizen residents to vote? Their democracy was not at all that different from our democracies today, it is the definition of "full citizen" that has changed.
  - russell 16y ago
    No, the distinction is that the Athenian democracy was a direct democracy where every citizen could vote on legislation, as opposed to representative democracy where representatives vote in a legislature. The US was a democracy, albeit imperfect, even when slaves and women couldnt vote. There are still some remnants of direct democracy: ballot measures and New England town meetings.
- gloob 16y ago
  The modern understanding of democracy is that democracy is a modern idea.

hugh3 16y ago

I'm confused about your parenthetical Greek remark. Isn't ancient Greek a European language, and doesn't our actual word "democracy" come directly from it? And I'm not so sure that their concept of the meaning of "democracy" was significantly different to ours, even though there were significant differences for how it went on in practice.

anonymous246 16y ago
What I meant is that in Greece only a few people voted (IIRC women and slaves weren't allowed to vote), so it wasn't close to our current understanding of democracy. Unless I'm mistaken and Greece had universal adult franchise. And hence supporting my claim that "democracy" is a Renaissance concept rather than an ancient Greek concept.
- hugh3 16y ago
  Rennaisance? Even the most advanced modern democracies generally didn't give women the vote until the late 1800s. (Switzerland didn't have it until 1971, and is still one of the most prosperous and peaceful countries on Earth. Germany granted women the vote in 1918, and we all know how that worked out...)
- burgerbrain 16y ago
  In numerous countries, and some states in the US, convicted felons who have completed their sentence are not allowed to vote. Are those not democracies as we currently understand it? For that matter, ALL countries that I am aware of that allow their citizens to vote set an arbitrary 'magic number' and don't let you vote unless you are at least that old. Are those not democracies as we currently understand it? In the United States, non-citizen residents are not allowed to vote. How is this any different from the ancient Greeks not allowing non-citizen residents to vote? Their democracy was not at all that different from our democracies today, it is the definition of "full citizen" that has changed.
- russell 16y ago
  No, the distinction is that the Athenian democracy was a direct democracy where every citizen could vote on legislation, as opposed to representative democracy where representatives vote in a legislature. The US was a democracy, albeit imperfect, even when slaves and women couldnt vote. There are still some remnants of direct democracy: ballot measures and New England town meetings.
gloob 16y ago
The modern understanding of democracy is that democracy is a modern idea.