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Which is exactly what I wrote if you read the complete message. The point is, how does a new company produce this good product (which many people find very usef

Which is exactly what I wrote if you read the complete message. The point is, how does a new company produce this good product (which many people find very useful, even if it sounds like you don't) - when all the other major manufacturers with their experience and budgets are failing in this regard?

ummonk 7y ago
You called it self driving, which it most definitely is not. Unless you’re going to argue that old school cruise control also constituted self driving tech. And Tesla’s assisted driving tech isn’t that much better than other manufacturers.
dmitriid 7y ago
Other manufacturers are not failing, you’re just blinded by Tesla’s flashy marketing. For example, Volvo’s current breed of cars has everything that Tesla has to offer. However, their approach is “no person killed by Volvo by 2020”, so their tech is rightly called assisted driving. Other manufacturers have similar tech and approaches. A few years back European truck manufacturers even had a competition that involved autonomous driving on general roads across multiple state borders in Europe. However, Tesla’s marketing keeps insisting that their tech is full autonomous driving, and their lawyers correctly insist that its not. Now, back to the “not realistic to work on”. Because it’s not realistic. Real autonomous driving is decades away. And “state-of-the-art” is barely semi-autonomous (requires driver’s attention at all times), barely works under ideal conditions (read: sunny California weather with good roads, signs and road markings), can barely handle a very restricted set of road and weather conditions etc. etc.
- Erlich_Bachman 7y ago
  > For example, Volvo’s current breed of cars has everything that Tesla has to offer. Have you actually tried it or did you just read it off some anti-tesla rant on the Internet? I desperately want to believe that statement because Teslas are very overpriced for the amount of comfort they provide, but every time I test any other car, the "lane assist" and similar things are nowhere near what Tesla offers. They are all "just as good" on paper, and then you activate lane assist and smallest problem like one small segment of the road line being off makes a Volvo or something else scream in panic and force you to take the wheel while Tesla gracefully doesn't even notices at as a problem and keeps driving. Just because the other manufacturers say on paper "we also have lane assist" does not mean it's the same function. Look at this latest Audi e-tron. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjsfMmJ4AiM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjsfMmJ4AiM When you say that other manufacturers are not doing as much marketing for this, you are right. But you got it the other way around: it's not that they are behind on the marketing, and that's why they are failing. They are failing to implement these features that Tesla's already have in great quality on the mass-market, - and that's why they don't have the audacity to market those features, because they know that if they forced people to actually take their "lane assist" seriously, they would be scrutinized by the market even more and all those flaws would be brought to light. Go actually test a Tesla autopilot, on a long drive, and then go actually test a Volvo, VW, BMW, etc lane assist -and then come back and review your statement. Your mind will be changed. > barely works under ideal conditions (read: sunny California weather with good roads, signs and road markings), Watch more of videos on that channel. Many rain situations are fine, and barely some visible road markings is all that is needed. Yes level 5 might be a decade away, but even as it is - that's like 80% of driving time covered. What part of it is "unrealistic" when it already exists?
  - dmitriid 7y ago
    > Have you actually tried it or did you just read it off some anti-tesla rant on the Internet? I have. > They are failing to implement these features that Tesla's already have in great quality on the mass-market > Go actually test a Tesla autopilot, on a long drive You keep buying into Tesla's marketing. Here's a riddle for you: every time a Tesla fails and kills a person, Tesla quickly blames the driver. They say that the driver has to always keep watch and grab the wheel at the first sign of trouble. Here's an official statement by Tesla in such an accident: "We also ask our customers to exercise safe behavior when using our vehicles, including following the car’s instructions for remaining alert and present when using Autopilot and to be prepared to take control at all times" [1] Why is that, do you think? Other companies are just less careless about human lives. They don't pretend it's a full autopilot. They don't pretend that the system can handle 100% of situations. They don't pretend that you can safely fall asleep behind the wheel, and nothing will happen. They call it what it is and introduce the features gradually because they are fully aware of the current capabilities of autonomous systems. Tesla is fully aware of that as well, but their marketing is willfully engaged in deception tactics. > What part of it is "unrealistic" when it already exists? The part where it doesn't exist. In all cases it requires the driver to be fully engaged and alert at all times. [1] https://abcnews.go.com/US/teslas-autopilot-blamed-driver-accident-police/story?id=60994610 https://abcnews.go.com/US/teslas-autopilot-blamed-driver-acc...

ummonk 7y ago

You called it self driving, which it most definitely is not. Unless you’re going to argue that old school cruise control also constituted self driving tech. And Tesla’s assisted driving tech isn’t that much better than other manufacturers.

dmitriid 7y ago

Other manufacturers are not failing, you’re just blinded by Tesla’s flashy marketing. For example, Volvo’s current breed of cars has everything that Tesla has to offer. However, their approach is “no person killed by Volvo by 2020”, so their tech is rightly called assisted driving. Other manufacturers have similar tech and approaches. A few years back European truck manufacturers even had a competition that involved autonomous driving on general roads across multiple state borders in Europe. However, Tesla’s marketing keeps insisting that their tech is full autonomous driving, and their lawyers correctly insist that its not. Now, back to the “not realistic to work on”. Because it’s not realistic. Real autonomous driving is decades away. And “state-of-the-art” is barely semi-autonomous (requires driver’s attention at all times), barely works under ideal conditions (read: sunny California weather with good roads, signs and road markings), can barely handle a very restricted set of road and weather conditions etc. etc.

Erlich_Bachman 7y ago
> For example, Volvo’s current breed of cars has everything that Tesla has to offer. Have you actually tried it or did you just read it off some anti-tesla rant on the Internet? I desperately want to believe that statement because Teslas are very overpriced for the amount of comfort they provide, but every time I test any other car, the "lane assist" and similar things are nowhere near what Tesla offers. They are all "just as good" on paper, and then you activate lane assist and smallest problem like one small segment of the road line being off makes a Volvo or something else scream in panic and force you to take the wheel while Tesla gracefully doesn't even notices at as a problem and keeps driving. Just because the other manufacturers say on paper "we also have lane assist" does not mean it's the same function. Look at this latest Audi e-tron. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjsfMmJ4AiM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjsfMmJ4AiM When you say that other manufacturers are not doing as much marketing for this, you are right. But you got it the other way around: it's not that they are behind on the marketing, and that's why they are failing. They are failing to implement these features that Tesla's already have in great quality on the mass-market, - and that's why they don't have the audacity to market those features, because they know that if they forced people to actually take their "lane assist" seriously, they would be scrutinized by the market even more and all those flaws would be brought to light. Go actually test a Tesla autopilot, on a long drive, and then go actually test a Volvo, VW, BMW, etc lane assist -and then come back and review your statement. Your mind will be changed. > barely works under ideal conditions (read: sunny California weather with good roads, signs and road markings), Watch more of videos on that channel. Many rain situations are fine, and barely some visible road markings is all that is needed. Yes level 5 might be a decade away, but even as it is - that's like 80% of driving time covered. What part of it is "unrealistic" when it already exists?
- dmitriid 7y ago
  > Have you actually tried it or did you just read it off some anti-tesla rant on the Internet? I have. > They are failing to implement these features that Tesla's already have in great quality on the mass-market > Go actually test a Tesla autopilot, on a long drive You keep buying into Tesla's marketing. Here's a riddle for you: every time a Tesla fails and kills a person, Tesla quickly blames the driver. They say that the driver has to always keep watch and grab the wheel at the first sign of trouble. Here's an official statement by Tesla in such an accident: "We also ask our customers to exercise safe behavior when using our vehicles, including following the car’s instructions for remaining alert and present when using Autopilot and to be prepared to take control at all times" [1] Why is that, do you think? Other companies are just less careless about human lives. They don't pretend it's a full autopilot. They don't pretend that the system can handle 100% of situations. They don't pretend that you can safely fall asleep behind the wheel, and nothing will happen. They call it what it is and introduce the features gradually because they are fully aware of the current capabilities of autonomous systems. Tesla is fully aware of that as well, but their marketing is willfully engaged in deception tactics. > What part of it is "unrealistic" when it already exists? The part where it doesn't exist. In all cases it requires the driver to be fully engaged and alert at all times. [1] https://abcnews.go.com/US/teslas-autopilot-blamed-driver-accident-police/story?id=60994610 https://abcnews.go.com/US/teslas-autopilot-blamed-driver-acc...