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Your problem was in environment which didn't embrace the ways you like, not that language was multi-paradigm. "I love Python cooked functionally, but my colleag

Your problem was in environment which didn't embrace the ways you like, not that language was multi-paradigm. "I love Python cooked functionally, but my colleagues do only OO" is equivalent to "I love Clojure, but my colleagues do only Java".

0x445442 7y ago
"I love Python cooked functionally, but my colleagues do only OO" is equivalent to "I love functional Java but my colleagues do only OO Java". Fixed that for you. The whole point of the comment was that Clojure, by and large, forces you to work one way and Python doesn't.
- brokenkebab 7y ago
  The whole point of the comment was that Clojure, by and large, forces you to work one way and Python doesn't. The point of my comment is that it's not true (except in a narrow educational meaning). Your working environment (managers, colleagues, existing codebase) is what defines your limits in general, including language, approach, style, and frameworks. If your current shop can't accept your call to write more functional code in whatever language is used there, it obviously won't start developing in Clojure. It works exactly this way, not in the opposite direction. Ergo, the guy's problem was that his environment wasn't inclined to switch from OO. He couldn't say "Mates, let's use Clojure, because it will finally FORCE you to discover the beautiful world of FP", because they just want to keep doing what they were doing yesterday. Fixed that for you. It's not a correction, and I hope you see now what I mean.
  - nanomonkey 7y ago
    You have a point, but coming to a consensus within a working environment can lead to a lot of friction and politics. Sadly also software is hardly ever one working environment. In Python, the libraries are a strong feature, and each library will have different contributors. Each with their own opinion on what is the most effective programming style. Take Python's Django framework for an example, it contains both OO and functional ways of doing most things. This can be confusing for newcomers who just want to know what is the best methodology going forward. One of the key features of using a framework is it allows you to add new developers to your project and they will know how to get things done.
iLemming 7y ago
I think the problem with almost all mainstream languages today that they are morally outdated. I feel for the next decade the industry will be striving for programming languages optimized either for developer's productivity, for correctness or for the execution performance and/or minimized footprint. Most languages today, including Python and Perl (and many others) sadly are not making progress in any of those directions. That's why programmers are desperately trying to find better ways, jumping from OOP to functional, from dynamically typed to statically typed, creating new frameworks, trying all sorts of hacks to improve concurrency, performance characteristics, etc. Burnout rates are high, and writing software is more complicated than ever. You can literally choose any PL from TIOBE's top 10 and if you get enough expertise - you'd realize that it is nothing but a big clusterfuck of a language.
- lizmat 7y ago
  Have you looked at Perl 6 ??

0x445442 7y ago

"I love Python cooked functionally, but my colleagues do only OO" is equivalent to "I love functional Java but my colleagues do only OO Java". Fixed that for you. The whole point of the comment was that Clojure, by and large, forces you to work one way and Python doesn't.

brokenkebab 7y ago
The whole point of the comment was that Clojure, by and large, forces you to work one way and Python doesn't. The point of my comment is that it's not true (except in a narrow educational meaning). Your working environment (managers, colleagues, existing codebase) is what defines your limits in general, including language, approach, style, and frameworks. If your current shop can't accept your call to write more functional code in whatever language is used there, it obviously won't start developing in Clojure. It works exactly this way, not in the opposite direction. Ergo, the guy's problem was that his environment wasn't inclined to switch from OO. He couldn't say "Mates, let's use Clojure, because it will finally FORCE you to discover the beautiful world of FP", because they just want to keep doing what they were doing yesterday. Fixed that for you. It's not a correction, and I hope you see now what I mean.
- nanomonkey 7y ago
  You have a point, but coming to a consensus within a working environment can lead to a lot of friction and politics. Sadly also software is hardly ever one working environment. In Python, the libraries are a strong feature, and each library will have different contributors. Each with their own opinion on what is the most effective programming style. Take Python's Django framework for an example, it contains both OO and functional ways of doing most things. This can be confusing for newcomers who just want to know what is the best methodology going forward. One of the key features of using a framework is it allows you to add new developers to your project and they will know how to get things done.

iLemming 7y ago

I think the problem with almost all mainstream languages today that they are morally outdated. I feel for the next decade the industry will be striving for programming languages optimized either for developer's productivity, for correctness or for the execution performance and/or minimized footprint. Most languages today, including Python and Perl (and many others) sadly are not making progress in any of those directions. That's why programmers are desperately trying to find better ways, jumping from OOP to functional, from dynamically typed to statically typed, creating new frameworks, trying all sorts of hacks to improve concurrency, performance characteristics, etc. Burnout rates are high, and writing software is more complicated than ever. You can literally choose any PL from TIOBE's top 10 and if you get enough expertise - you'd realize that it is nothing but a big clusterfuck of a language.

lizmat 7y ago
Have you looked at Perl 6 ??