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Obviously this has real advantages for making it easier for non-technical users to run Python applications, but I despair for the future of computing. A deskto

Obviously this has real advantages for making it easier for non-technical users to run Python applications, but I despair for the future of computing. A desktop computer in 2025 is going to have 47 redundant installations of Chromium for various electron apps, 78 separate-but-basically-identical Python runtimes as every small utility packages the entire Python interpreter + stdlib, 200,000 redundant npm packages...

lawik 7y ago
Isn't it glorious? I definitely share those concerns. But being able to package things in an independent way is incredibly useful. I hope we can get away from the reliance on incredibly disproportionately sized runtimes (such as Chromium) for making GUI apps in most cases. I think it trades too much of the user's resources for developer convenience. Unless you are trying to do audio/video conferencing in which case I guess I get it. I've found the work on the Scenic UI framework in Elixir quite cool (only depends on OpenGL + glfw on desktop, nanovg on RPi). I also had reason to build a simple bit with wxWidgets in Elixir through Erlang. Didn't love it. But that should be able to make reasonable-sized native but cross-platform UIs. Elixir and Erlang tend to package releases in a nice independent way. But what I need this for is because every library under the sun is available for Python. And sometimes you need to just get a small utility built and distributed.
FPGAhacker 7y ago
I care that my applications work correctly. I don't care what is under the hood. I care that it works, correctly and well. If anything, the technology underlying the abstraction of data storage should be taking care of optimal use of resources.
- ForHackernews 7y ago
  We used to call that an operating system.
jedberg 7y ago
Disk is cheap, internet is pretty fast. I'd rather have the consistency of packaged software than deal with getting a bunch of libraries just right to save a little space.
- ForHackernews 7y ago
  Sadly, this attitude goes a long way towards explaining why all software is garbage and computers feel about the same speed now as they did in 1998, despite being literal orders of magnitude more powerful. Maybe we'll eventually hit hard physical limits on hardware, and then we software developers will be forced to learn how to do our jobs correctly for the first time.
- squaresmile 7y ago
  > Disk is cheap, internet is pretty fast Until it isn't [0]. I think it's fine to only develop/care for faster hardware but I'm not a fan of broad statement like this when it doesn't apply for so many people. [0] https://www.speedtest.net/global-index#mobile https://www.speedtest.net/global-index#mobile
  - jedberg 7y ago
    There is a difference between catering to fast runtime internet vs fast install internet. I agree with you that we should optimize apps to be quick on slow internet, especially with so many mobile only users. But making an app that is large is a one time hit that isn't so bad, even on slow internet.
Asooka 7y ago
Bold of you to assume there will be 47 useful apps in 2025
- ForHackernews 7y ago
  I'm assuming 45 of them will be pre-installed by the OEM and run in the background using Electron-for-daemons(tm) to enable a more personalized advertorial experience.

lawik 7y ago

Isn't it glorious? I definitely share those concerns. But being able to package things in an independent way is incredibly useful. I hope we can get away from the reliance on incredibly disproportionately sized runtimes (such as Chromium) for making GUI apps in most cases. I think it trades too much of the user's resources for developer convenience. Unless you are trying to do audio/video conferencing in which case I guess I get it. I've found the work on the Scenic UI framework in Elixir quite cool (only depends on OpenGL + glfw on desktop, nanovg on RPi). I also had reason to build a simple bit with wxWidgets in Elixir through Erlang. Didn't love it. But that should be able to make reasonable-sized native but cross-platform UIs. Elixir and Erlang tend to package releases in a nice independent way. But what I need this for is because every library under the sun is available for Python. And sometimes you need to just get a small utility built and distributed.

FPGAhacker 7y ago

I care that my applications work correctly. I don't care what is under the hood. I care that it works, correctly and well. If anything, the technology underlying the abstraction of data storage should be taking care of optimal use of resources.

ForHackernews 7y ago
We used to call that an operating system.

jedberg 7y ago

Disk is cheap, internet is pretty fast. I'd rather have the consistency of packaged software than deal with getting a bunch of libraries just right to save a little space.

ForHackernews 7y ago
Sadly, this attitude goes a long way towards explaining why all software is garbage and computers feel about the same speed now as they did in 1998, despite being literal orders of magnitude more powerful. Maybe we'll eventually hit hard physical limits on hardware, and then we software developers will be forced to learn how to do our jobs correctly for the first time.
squaresmile 7y ago
> Disk is cheap, internet is pretty fast Until it isn't [0]. I think it's fine to only develop/care for faster hardware but I'm not a fan of broad statement like this when it doesn't apply for so many people. [0] https://www.speedtest.net/global-index#mobile https://www.speedtest.net/global-index#mobile
- jedberg 7y ago
  There is a difference between catering to fast runtime internet vs fast install internet. I agree with you that we should optimize apps to be quick on slow internet, especially with so many mobile only users. But making an app that is large is a one time hit that isn't so bad, even on slow internet.

Asooka 7y ago

Bold of you to assume there will be 47 useful apps in 2025

ForHackernews 7y ago
I'm assuming 45 of them will be pre-installed by the OEM and run in the background using Electron-for-daemons(tm) to enable a more personalized advertorial experience.