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I think the point of the story was not that he was a 'good speaker' but rather, his foolhardiness is a populist act. Which implies that his kind of bumbling at

I think the point of the story was not that he was a 'good speaker' but rather, his foolhardiness is a populist act. Which implies that his kind of bumbling attitude in popular politics might very well be calculated, i.e. he's not a fool, he's brilliant. I'll buy that he's borderline genius with the populist bits, but I also believe basically everyone in international politics who say he's a clown, totally unprepared, never serious. Some of the things serious entities have to say about him are pretty bad.

whatshisface 7y ago
Suppose you were a calculating actor like this guy, and you wanted to insult him. Would you design the insult around his private persona, which only you and a select few were privy to, or around his public persona, so that the public will agree with the insult? If the truth doesn't matter to you, you will join in on the illusion of him being disorganized, because that's what the public already believes.
- sonnyblarney 7y ago
  The plebs don't seem to be aware that he's disorganized and unprepared or lacking in knowledge - that's beyond the things they care about it seems. Apparently, people 'like him' and his sheer popularity I think is most of the driving force behind his success. Anyone who's paying attention (small minority in reality) seems to regard him as a complete idiot, however. The Financial Times, his former editor at the Telegraph, obviously the Guardian - any serious writing about him is seriously derisive. These are harsh words [1] The thing I don't understand is what the Conservatives are thinking at this time? Are they simply looking at the polls showing him as clearly the most electable in an election? Because I can't believe that conservative MP's don't realize he's a fool as well. Maybe they think they'll be able to combine him with a solid Brexit negotiator, but I don't see that working. I just can't fathom Boris Johnson sitting down with Merkel, and whoever the new EU President is going to be, and doing anything material. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun/24/boris-johnson-prime-minister-tory-party-britain https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun/24/boris-...
  - bjelkeman-again 7y ago
    I believe the Conservatives, like the Republicans in the US, have abandoned any attempt at actually ruling the country sensibly and just try to stay in power.
  - benj111 7y ago
    Theres a poll from last week(?) I saw. Conservative members put Brexit above the union (with Scotland and Northern Ireland), above the survival of their party, and above the economy. The only thing they put above Brexit is keeping out Corbyn. Edit, here it is: https://monevator.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/YouGov-Tory-Brexit.jpg https://monevator.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/YouGov-Tory...
  - repolfx 7y ago
    The Financial Times, his former editor at the Telegraph, obviously the Guardian I would note that all three of these are extremely anti-Brexit. Lots of people believe (rightly or wrongly) that Leave wouldn't have won without the support of Johnson and blame him personally for Brexit, which they see as an abomination. They aren't going to be even handed in their judgement of him: really, I'd say anything they write about him is going to be a smear.
    - sonnyblarney 7y ago
      The Telegraph editorial position is 'Brexit' [1] [1] https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/0/heres-where-britains-newspapers-stand-on-the-eu-referendum/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/0/heres-where-britains-...
      - repolfx 7y ago
        Yes I know. But Max Hastings is a former editor.
smsm42 7y ago
Not being British I don't really have a skin in the game, but thinking about how well things have been going lately over there with the "serious" people, I wonder maybe it's time to question the value of their seriousness. If you're very serious total failure, then the seriousness helps no one.
- monodeldiablo 7y ago
  There haven't been many "serious" people at the helm since the Brexit vote. Clowns are running the show, and BoJo plays a very convincing clown. Ultimately, though, that's a sideshow. He has no principles, forethought, or plan. So I struggle to understand how he'd improve the UK's position.
  - repolfx 7y ago
    Theresa May wasn't "serious"? The woman who, on being asked about the naughtiest thing she'd ever done, said "running through a field of wheat"? Since the Brexit vote the only people at the helm have been serious establishment types who saw the entire process as a damage limitation exercise, and who couldn't stop telling the country that what they had been offered and requested wasn't actually possible, the sky would fall and so on. Many such serious people made very serious predictions, most notoriously, the Treasury predicting that the vote would trigger an uncertainty-based recession that'd wipe out half a million jobs. Obviously the reality was very different. Boris isn't an idiot. He is popular because he did a good job in London and comes across as a man who believes in Britain and wants to get things done. Whether he will or not is an entirely different matter; his party is still against him. But he's widely liked for understandable reasons.

whatshisface 7y ago

Suppose you were a calculating actor like this guy, and you wanted to insult him. Would you design the insult around his private persona, which only you and a select few were privy to, or around his public persona, so that the public will agree with the insult? If the truth doesn't matter to you, you will join in on the illusion of him being disorganized, because that's what the public already believes.

sonnyblarney 7y ago
The plebs don't seem to be aware that he's disorganized and unprepared or lacking in knowledge - that's beyond the things they care about it seems. Apparently, people 'like him' and his sheer popularity I think is most of the driving force behind his success. Anyone who's paying attention (small minority in reality) seems to regard him as a complete idiot, however. The Financial Times, his former editor at the Telegraph, obviously the Guardian - any serious writing about him is seriously derisive. These are harsh words [1] The thing I don't understand is what the Conservatives are thinking at this time? Are they simply looking at the polls showing him as clearly the most electable in an election? Because I can't believe that conservative MP's don't realize he's a fool as well. Maybe they think they'll be able to combine him with a solid Brexit negotiator, but I don't see that working. I just can't fathom Boris Johnson sitting down with Merkel, and whoever the new EU President is going to be, and doing anything material. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun/24/boris-johnson-prime-minister-tory-party-britain https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun/24/boris-...
- bjelkeman-again 7y ago
  I believe the Conservatives, like the Republicans in the US, have abandoned any attempt at actually ruling the country sensibly and just try to stay in power.
- benj111 7y ago
  Theres a poll from last week(?) I saw. Conservative members put Brexit above the union (with Scotland and Northern Ireland), above the survival of their party, and above the economy. The only thing they put above Brexit is keeping out Corbyn. Edit, here it is: https://monevator.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/YouGov-Tory-Brexit.jpg https://monevator.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/YouGov-Tory...
- repolfx 7y ago
  The Financial Times, his former editor at the Telegraph, obviously the Guardian I would note that all three of these are extremely anti-Brexit. Lots of people believe (rightly or wrongly) that Leave wouldn't have won without the support of Johnson and blame him personally for Brexit, which they see as an abomination. They aren't going to be even handed in their judgement of him: really, I'd say anything they write about him is going to be a smear.
  - sonnyblarney 7y ago
    The Telegraph editorial position is 'Brexit' [1] [1] https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/0/heres-where-britains-newspapers-stand-on-the-eu-referendum/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/0/heres-where-britains-...
    - repolfx 7y ago
      Yes I know. But Max Hastings is a former editor.

smsm42 7y ago

Not being British I don't really have a skin in the game, but thinking about how well things have been going lately over there with the "serious" people, I wonder maybe it's time to question the value of their seriousness. If you're very serious total failure, then the seriousness helps no one.

monodeldiablo 7y ago
There haven't been many "serious" people at the helm since the Brexit vote. Clowns are running the show, and BoJo plays a very convincing clown. Ultimately, though, that's a sideshow. He has no principles, forethought, or plan. So I struggle to understand how he'd improve the UK's position.
- repolfx 7y ago
  Theresa May wasn't "serious"? The woman who, on being asked about the naughtiest thing she'd ever done, said "running through a field of wheat"? Since the Brexit vote the only people at the helm have been serious establishment types who saw the entire process as a damage limitation exercise, and who couldn't stop telling the country that what they had been offered and requested wasn't actually possible, the sky would fall and so on. Many such serious people made very serious predictions, most notoriously, the Treasury predicting that the vote would trigger an uncertainty-based recession that'd wipe out half a million jobs. Obviously the reality was very different. Boris isn't an idiot. He is popular because he did a good job in London and comes across as a man who believes in Britain and wants to get things done. Whether he will or not is an entirely different matter; his party is still against him. But he's widely liked for understandable reasons.