4 ms·

The French also disallow "franglais" - a mix of French and English - in media, in order to avoid polluting their language. This seems like a par for the course

The French also disallow "franglais" - a mix of French and English - in media, in order to avoid polluting their language. This seems like a par for the course from a nation that looked until the 1500s like it would be the dominant world power before it turned inward.

paganel 16y ago
I'd say the 1500s belonged to the Spanish, who lost it big, very big, and the French came soon afterward to fill the gap, until Berezina and Waterloo. I was very surprised when I first found that around 1800 France had a population of ~29 million while England only had ~8 million.
- joshklein 16y ago
  Highly recommended: Rise and Fall of the Great Powers (Paul Kennedy) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rise_and_Fall_of_the_Great_Powers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rise_and_Fall_of_the_Great_... You're absolutely right about the Spanish, but it would be more appropriate to say the Hapsburgs, because what we're really talking about here is Spain, Austria-Hungry, the Balkans, The Holy Roman Empire... a huge portion of Europe all controlled centrally. The French followed them, and for a period, the state of power was essentially France vs everyone else. England took off later, and that's the history most of us (Americans) are more familiar with. BUT... this is a very Eurocentric view of history. There was a tremendous amount of other stuff going on leading up to and during this period in China, India, and what was once the Ottoman empire. In hindsight there are many reasons why our planet eventually became Eurocentric, but in 1500 that was not at all apparent - if things in China had gone differently; if they had not closed out new, outside, innovative ideas, we could very well have a very Chinese world today.
  - ygd 16y ago
    > Austria-Hungry Excuse my spelling-nazism, but I believe that should be Austria-Hungary. Austria-Hungry would mean something completely different.
    - m_myers 16y ago
      Mmm... Turkey...
      - Maro 16y ago
        Sir, as a Hungarian, it is my pleasure to point out that you're an idiot!
        m_myers 16y ago
        bows Idiocy accepted, sir. (Tired of the same old "Hungary for Turkey" non-jokes? Or just bitter about that whole Ottoman occupation thing?)
  - anonymousDan 16y ago
    Another good book along this line is Jared Diamond's 'Guns, Germs, and Steel'. One of the theories he puts forward for China's failure to keep up with Europe is its homogeneity. The fact that there were so many different european countries competing against each other meant that none could afford to ignore new innovative ideas.
mlgrinshpun 16y ago
The Académie Française sometimes pushes for the replacement of anglicisms with French neologisms, as was the case with the replacement of "e-mail" or "mail" by "courriel" a few years ago. Sometimes, the government follows suit and mandates that official communications adopt the change. I suppose that this could be interpreted as 'disallowing "franglais"', but your post is somewhat misleading. The media – newspapers, television, etc. – can say whatever the hell they want to, in whatever language they want to, and remain quite full of anglicisms, including "e-mail."
- zupatol 16y ago
  The french did pass a law about using french in official government publications, in all advertisements, in all workplaces, in commercial contracts, in some other commercial communication contexts, in all government-financed schools, and some other contexts: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toubon_Law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toubon_Law The french wikipedia page mentions that this law was later substantially watered down by the constitutional council.
imack 16y ago
I find the whole "polluting French" absolutely hilarious in a historical context given that English was Germanic before it was "polluted" by French at the tip of a spear. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_conquest_of_England http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_conquest_of_England
- gcb 16y ago
  i find very consistent, not hilarious. They understand the power of the language and expanding your culture over others. Some time ago you couldn't even send air mail without having some french words on the envelope.

paganel 16y ago

I'd say the 1500s belonged to the Spanish, who lost it big, very big, and the French came soon afterward to fill the gap, until Berezina and Waterloo. I was very surprised when I first found that around 1800 France had a population of ~29 million while England only had ~8 million.

joshklein 16y ago
Highly recommended: Rise and Fall of the Great Powers (Paul Kennedy) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rise_and_Fall_of_the_Great_Powers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rise_and_Fall_of_the_Great_... You're absolutely right about the Spanish, but it would be more appropriate to say the Hapsburgs, because what we're really talking about here is Spain, Austria-Hungry, the Balkans, The Holy Roman Empire... a huge portion of Europe all controlled centrally. The French followed them, and for a period, the state of power was essentially France vs everyone else. England took off later, and that's the history most of us (Americans) are more familiar with. BUT... this is a very Eurocentric view of history. There was a tremendous amount of other stuff going on leading up to and during this period in China, India, and what was once the Ottoman empire. In hindsight there are many reasons why our planet eventually became Eurocentric, but in 1500 that was not at all apparent - if things in China had gone differently; if they had not closed out new, outside, innovative ideas, we could very well have a very Chinese world today.
- ygd 16y ago
  > Austria-Hungry Excuse my spelling-nazism, but I believe that should be Austria-Hungary. Austria-Hungry would mean something completely different.
  - m_myers 16y ago
    Mmm... Turkey...
    - Maro 16y ago
      Sir, as a Hungarian, it is my pleasure to point out that you're an idiot!
      - m_myers 16y ago
        bows Idiocy accepted, sir. (Tired of the same old "Hungary for Turkey" non-jokes? Or just bitter about that whole Ottoman occupation thing?)
- anonymousDan 16y ago
  Another good book along this line is Jared Diamond's 'Guns, Germs, and Steel'. One of the theories he puts forward for China's failure to keep up with Europe is its homogeneity. The fact that there were so many different european countries competing against each other meant that none could afford to ignore new innovative ideas.

mlgrinshpun 16y ago

The Académie Française sometimes pushes for the replacement of anglicisms with French neologisms, as was the case with the replacement of "e-mail" or "mail" by "courriel" a few years ago. Sometimes, the government follows suit and mandates that official communications adopt the change. I suppose that this could be interpreted as 'disallowing "franglais"', but your post is somewhat misleading. The media – newspapers, television, etc. – can say whatever the hell they want to, in whatever language they want to, and remain quite full of anglicisms, including "e-mail."

zupatol 16y ago
The french did pass a law about using french in official government publications, in all advertisements, in all workplaces, in commercial contracts, in some other commercial communication contexts, in all government-financed schools, and some other contexts: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toubon_Law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toubon_Law The french wikipedia page mentions that this law was later substantially watered down by the constitutional council.

imack 16y ago

I find the whole "polluting French" absolutely hilarious in a historical context given that English was Germanic before it was "polluted" by French at the tip of a spear. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_conquest_of_England http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_conquest_of_England

gcb 16y ago
i find very consistent, not hilarious. They understand the power of the language and expanding your culture over others. Some time ago you couldn't even send air mail without having some french words on the envelope.