5 ms·

> you're actively hurting the adoption of Haskell by posting stuff like this in the wrong places/context If someone's put off learning Haskell because they are

> you're actively hurting the adoption of Haskell by posting stuff like this in the wrong places/context If someone's put off learning Haskell because they are (terrifyingly!) exposed to a single obviously non-beginner's article (on HN not the Daily Mail!) -- well, they must be too incurious to be worth recruiting to the language anyway. I know nothing about Haskell (and am unlikely ever to learn it for unrelated reasons), but I read the article, understood little of it, and survived with my interest if anything somewhat piqued.

hardwaresofton 7y ago
It kind of sounds like using curiosity as a gatekeeping mechanism. There's also nothing to suggest that someone who isn't curious today can't become more curious as time goes on. Maybe someone writes their first program with `unsafePerformIO` everywhere without understanding how to properly use monadic contexts, but that's likely not where they're going to stop -- that person may go on to properly understanding monads, monad stacks, then MTL, then free monads, etc. Great things happen when barriers to entry are low, why would you want to make the barriers seem higher (despite the fact they didn't actually change)? You're going to scare off someone who could have contributed a simple driver/client/whatever (the kind of libraries that make thriving ecosystems) that doesn't require any of this type tomfoolery (I use that term jokingly not pejoratively), because they wrote off haskell early.
- crispinb 7y ago
  It kind of sounds like using curiosity as a gatekeeping mechanism I don't know about 'using'. I think it just is one - learning is possible but terribly inefficient in its absence. There's also nothing to suggest that someone who isn't curious today can't become more curious as time goes on Very true & thanks for reminding me. That we can & do change (and must leave space for each other to) is one of the drums I like to bang now and then.
  - hardwaresofton 7y ago
    > I don't know about 'using'. I think it just is one - learning is possible but terribly inefficient in its absence. I definitely agree there -- it's definitely part of the barrier to entry, people have to start looking for other ways of doing things before they'll land on haskell since it isn't main stream. The things from haskell that are trickling out into the mainstream should (hopefully) be pointing people back at haskell, if it's at least mentioned in passing > Very true & thanks for reminding me. That we can & do change (and must leave space for each other to) is one of the drums I like to bang now and then. Yeah I really felt this when I watched Sandy's talk on polysemy (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dHFOjcK6pA0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dHFOjcK6pA0 There were parts he didn't quite fully understand and he mentions it Also to temper my previous comment, I want to be clear that I don't necessarily want every single able bodied coder to necessarily join the haskell ecosystem -- I am at least a little cynical in that I believe if there exist good contributors (that you do want) there are probably bad ones (that you don't want).
EdwardDiego 7y ago
> they must be too incurious to be worth recruiting to the language anyway. Is Haskell a language or a cult?

hardwaresofton 7y ago

It kind of sounds like using curiosity as a gatekeeping mechanism. There's also nothing to suggest that someone who isn't curious today can't become more curious as time goes on. Maybe someone writes their first program with `unsafePerformIO` everywhere without understanding how to properly use monadic contexts, but that's likely not where they're going to stop -- that person may go on to properly understanding monads, monad stacks, then MTL, then free monads, etc. Great things happen when barriers to entry are low, why would you want to make the barriers seem higher (despite the fact they didn't actually change)? You're going to scare off someone who could have contributed a simple driver/client/whatever (the kind of libraries that make thriving ecosystems) that doesn't require any of this type tomfoolery (I use that term jokingly not pejoratively), because they wrote off haskell early.

crispinb 7y ago
It kind of sounds like using curiosity as a gatekeeping mechanism I don't know about 'using'. I think it just is one - learning is possible but terribly inefficient in its absence. There's also nothing to suggest that someone who isn't curious today can't become more curious as time goes on Very true & thanks for reminding me. That we can & do change (and must leave space for each other to) is one of the drums I like to bang now and then.
- hardwaresofton 7y ago
  > I don't know about 'using'. I think it just is one - learning is possible but terribly inefficient in its absence. I definitely agree there -- it's definitely part of the barrier to entry, people have to start looking for other ways of doing things before they'll land on haskell since it isn't main stream. The things from haskell that are trickling out into the mainstream should (hopefully) be pointing people back at haskell, if it's at least mentioned in passing > Very true & thanks for reminding me. That we can & do change (and must leave space for each other to) is one of the drums I like to bang now and then. Yeah I really felt this when I watched Sandy's talk on polysemy (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dHFOjcK6pA0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dHFOjcK6pA0 There were parts he didn't quite fully understand and he mentions it Also to temper my previous comment, I want to be clear that I don't necessarily want every single able bodied coder to necessarily join the haskell ecosystem -- I am at least a little cynical in that I believe if there exist good contributors (that you do want) there are probably bad ones (that you don't want).

EdwardDiego 7y ago

> they must be too incurious to be worth recruiting to the language anyway. Is Haskell a language or a cult?